Immunizing Against Anti-Science with Neil deGrasse Tyson & Peter Hotez

How do you stop the spread of anti-science rhetoric? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Paul Mecurio break down disease prevention and the rise of anti-science with physician and global health expert, Peter Hotez.

Find out about Peter’s work on “forgotten diseases'' and how climate change affects the spread of tropical diseases. We discuss the rise of anti-science and the impacts of the anti-vaccine movement. How do you uncouple anti-science beliefs from political ones? We explore the idea of medical freedom and the responsibility of doctors to balance academic freedom with professional ethics. What does it mean to be a “critical thinker”?

What are some of the strangest conspiracy theories? How can non-scientists contribute to science? Learn about the Dunning-Kruger effect and how to respect freedom while also enforcing scientific belief. We discuss our society’s approach to presenting facts versus opinions.

How do you discuss science with skeptics without starting an immediate argument? Has there always been this much anti-science or is it a product of the internet? Which anti-science movement is the most shocking? Learn about the movie Shot in the Arm and the history of vaccine hesitancy. Do Peter and Neil ever feel like they want to give up on explaining science to people?

Thanks to our Patrons Ivan Stanic, Jeff Collins, HD, Matthew Steinberger, Michael Tikalsky, Kin Chan, and Cynthia Cook for supporting us this week.

NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free.

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Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!

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00:00 - Introduction: Peter Hotez
3:23 - Remembering Forgotten Diseases
6:08 - The Impact of Climate Change on Tropical Disease
9:03 - The Rise of Anti-Science
12:09 - Uncoupling Science from Politics
22:05 - Strangest Conspiracy Theories
23:50 - How Can Non-Scientist Contribute to Science?
28:09 - Respecting Freedom & Scientific Belief
31:10 - Talk to Conspiracy Theorists
35:39 - How The Internet Amplified Anti-Science
38:40 - Anti-Vax & Demonizing Autism
40:40 - What Would It Take to Give Up Explaining Science
42:49 - The Ramifications of Anti-Science
46:19 - Closing Thoughts

[StarTalk]

How do you try to combat anti-science?

[Randall_Jenkins]

I just want to give a shoutout to Paul. Every time he is on the show he has done his homework. Reading the guest’s book. Thank you for that!

[lolaeleven]

The most logical and ethical solution to vaccine hesitancy would be for the makers to back up their products with liability. That never seems to be on the table but bribery and celebrities pushing the liability free products is acceptable. Doesn't exactly inspire respect or trust.

[buzbuz-]

The problem with the internet is that it does not monetize truth - to the contrary, you can make more money posting lies than truth. The problem with society in general is that we do not value the truth and have not given people the tools to be able to distinguish truth from lies. We could easily do so and in an entertaining way - by creating entertaining games or shows that require you to determine the truth. However, there is a large vested interest in keeping people ignorant of these tools - which makes people more susceptible to marketing pitches, or to do things that are against their own self-interest.

[elizabethvillalobos]

But I'm not scientifically literate (MSW), never having made it past 10th grade biology, but I love your channel. I'm subscribed and watch it every day. ❤

[dmac]

In the discussion about "news" vs "opinion", prior to 1987 and the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time rules, TV networks actually did display a caption labeled "commentary" or "opinion" during an opinion segment of a news broadcast. Opinion shows didn't do this because they were marketed as such.
One common aspect of those who are "anti science" is their perception of what science is. They view it through the lens of belief as if were a religion. They often see science as something that threatens their own beliefs particularly when it comes to evolution.

[MaryAnnNytowl]

This reminds me: a) my planting zone has changed from 5, to 5a, to 5b, to 6 over the last 30 years, and b) we now have armadillos regularly here, though we were told they couldn't survive the winters, which has also happened over the past 3 decades.

It makes me so frustrated that my neighbors, those in my county, etc., that have also lived through these changes, and couldn't have NOT noticed these changes... STILL don't realize that this IS part of the Climate Crisis, and no, it's NOT a very natural change! You shouldn't have lived through changes this freaking dramatic! Your grandkids shouldn't even live long enough that your great-grandparents' climate would be that drastically different to your great-grandchildren's climate.

And then, trying to explain to them that this rapid change is also rapidly changing what diseases we are exposed to seems to also be like trying to convince an unpainted brick wall it's not painted. It's not listening... and it's like these deniers are also not listening.

They're just like flat earthers, moon landing deniers, and young earth creationists, IMO. They let the facts given out to them go right into one ear and straight out the other, with nary a brain cell noticing them go past.

To fight educational illiteracy, vote in better school board members aa well as politicians who will freaking FUND education! That means watching to see if there are any elections in your neighborhood at any time, every single year, NOT just every 4 years.

[CC-ggoj]

Bill Bryson wrote a book called The Body, in one of his chapters covered pandemics and how unprepared the world was at the time of his writing. The book came about a year before Covid came along. He was spot on.

[PhilRounds]

I read a book recently called "The Great Influenza" and it's chilling how similar the reactions, socially and politically, were to the Covid19 pandemic.

[davidt]

The reason why social media and the internet are so key is because of narrowcasting. You no longer have a few outlets that cover things across the spectrum. Now you only have to listen to the things you like and want to hear.

[Where-Am-I-Again-My-Guy]

I am here to learn. I am uneducated by most accounts and Love the stars and space but realized we will never get to the stars if we cannot solve some of the problems here first. Watching these videos have been giving me hope for the future. Hope is almost all I have. I wish I could afford schooling to be able to do something to help but I will help by trying to stay as educated as I can.

[Blazestar]

In my lifetime, as someone who used to teach ecological sciences to the public, I began noticing this evident divide between science and public discourse really kicked up a year or so after the Space Shuttle Program ended (2011).

Where I lived here in Florida, the Space Shuttle was a shining beacon for students - an awe-inspiring reminder of what can be accomplished with human commraderie and scientific endevours. In addition to this, Florida's rich ecosystem of fauna and flora captivated many people - and inspired swathes of teenagers to become biologists and what have you.

But as the spectacle of space-science died down, and Florida's ecosystem became increasingly tourist-centric, it felt like science was losing its favor and respect within the public's eye.

[robotron]

*Hotez:* "Two doses and you're fully immunized." "This is going to be a long-lasting vaccine"
*Hotez, a few months later:* "I've always said, this is a three-dose vaccine"

[bernardshaw]

Perfect timing just finished my last and was contemplating what book to read next, ordered

[jessicawery]

should the licensing organizations, professional organizations "police" medical professionals offering advice beyond their credentialed area of expertise? certainly, there would be consequences for a dentist practicing brain surgery. Similarly, medical professionals giving advice on virology and communicable diseases without the professional expertise should be called out by their professional organizations. It is unethical.

[barryscully]

Just because someone has an idea or new theory does not mean that scientists need to prove it wrong, it is up to the person(s) with that idea to give facts/evidence supporting an idea that can then be looked at by others, re-tested to see the evidence holds and or show evidence as to how that data might not be sufficient to be the correct and/or only solution. I know that this is the basis of the concept of science but it is the difficult thing I think to get through to people.
When most of politics (and many other areas) is based on the manipulation of emotional responses it is very difficult to get most people to think rationally. It seems the battle that has been lost is to those who use emotional arguments to push for decisions so successfully. My question would be is it possible for humans (not an individual human) to use rationality instead of emotions to make decisions in life.

[ongogablogian]

Skepticism isn't the issue. The issue is outright denial of confirmed and established evidence/science derived from multiple, peer reviewed sources in an effort to support ones own preconseptions.
Do some people experience negative reactions resulting from vaccinations? Sure. The question is to what degree those negative reactions are outweighed by the positive benefits, i.e., cost, benefit analysis. Overwhelmingly, does society benefit? This shouldn't be controversial.

[PackRatManiac]

I found Dr. Hotez's book on Spotify. I have two autistic daughters and my oldest has a half sibling with autism. I'm hoping his book will help me convince others that vaccines are not the issue when it comes to autism. It's alarming how many people I meet that assume I'm antivaxx because my girls are autistic. Brian Deer also did some great work debunking the work of Andrew Wakefield. I highly recommend his work.

[barbaragemin]

Thanks so much to all three of you. I can’t think of any other channel that combines amazing knowledge of science, which is understandable to non- scientists, and great humour. This anti- science video was both fascinating and of course, worrying.

[clayratliff]

I think it would go a long way towards stopping the blending of news and opinion if we would simply stop allowing talk shows to call themselves "news" or use "news" in their names. I would love to see legislation that says you can only be classified as journalism or news organization if you can prove in a court of law that you're reasonably objective.