(1/6) Goethe's Theory of Knowledge: The Art of Seeing

Jeff, Alexander and I start a new series looking at Steiner's description of Goethe's theory of knowledge as derived from Goethe's artistic and scientific productions.
In this first conversation we consider the important preface and the first 3 chapters of the book
The Point of Departure
The Science of Goethe According to the Method of Schiller
The Task of Science

0:00 Why revisit Steiner's spiritual science? Discussing motivations for rereading key texts.
3:03 How does anthroposophy address modern issues? Examining its relevance to social and scientific questions.
7:09 What distinguishes Goethean from spiritual science? Exploring the threshold between material and spiritual.
10:46 Is Goethean science practically useful? Its role in ethical decision-making and nature.
15:04 How does Goethean science view plant growth? Understanding the process through observation.
23:05 How does Goethean science relate to consciousness? Consciousness development through imagination and intuition.
31:04 What is the art of seeing? Recognizing the role of thinking in perception.
39:02 How does Goethean science expand perception? Broadening understanding of the natural world.
47:02 How do preconceptions shape scientific views? Impact of preconceived notions on observations.
51:00 How does Goethean science approach observation? Letting phenomena reveal themselves naturally.
1:12:16 How does nature inform human understanding? Integrating observation with scientific knowledge.
1:19:25 Should science apply universally? Discussing the limitations of applying concepts across realms.
1:26:00 What is the task of science? Exploring the relationship between thinking and reality.
1:35:07 How does Goethean epistemology differ? Aligning ideational and experiential worlds.

See also Ashvin'¨s work here:

#goethe
#schiller
#epistemology
#scienceofknowing

[white_red_black]

00:09 Discussion on Goethe's worldview and its relevance to spiritual science.
03:09 Renewed engagement with Goethe's work highlights existential relevance to contemporary questions.
09:07 Exploring the utility of Goethean science in ethical decision-making.
11:57 Exploring the differences between Giran and spiritual science.
17:52 Goethe emphasized epistemology as central to bridging spiritual and scientific understanding.
20:15 Goethe's approach to knowledge emphasizes experiential understanding over occult results.
25:44 Goethe's science intertwines imagination with understanding consciousness.
28:03 Goethe critiques contemporary philosophy's detachment from reality.
32:50 Human creativity is essential for genuine artistic and philosophical expression.
35:19 The need for holistic understanding in science versus fragmented perspectives.
40:52 Goethe's method emphasizes understanding perceptions beyond initial assumptions.
43:25 High pressure explained through atomic behavior vs. human experience of pressure.
48:48 Phenomenology emphasizes seeing through thinking to enhance perception.
51:11 Goethe's approach emphasizes the connection between spirit and nature's essence.
56:13 Developing consciousness leads to imagination and intuition in education.
58:51 Goethe emphasizes losing oneself to understand the essence of observation.
1:04:11 Exploring insights as connections with non-human beings.
1:06:41 Explores human relationships as a grounding for understanding the world.
1:11:45 Understanding knowledge through artistic expression and embodied experience.
1:14:12 Different trees reveal unique perspectives through experiential observation.
1:19:17 Understanding knowledge limitations across different scientific realms is crucial.
1:21:59 Goethe critiques traditional scientific views of the sun's nature.
1:26:44 Abstracting from reality risks confusing science with flawed technology.
1:28:56 Understanding our actions requires direct observation and personal experience.
1:34:18 Understanding the relationship between consciousness and the outer world.
1:36:55 Thinking connects us intimately with the world around us.
1:41:51 Discussion on recording challenges during video production.
Crafted by Merlin AI.

[martinscase]

Thank you for such a courteous and thoughtful discussion about this vitally important work. The respect you show each other and the space afforded for reflection is a joy to experience.

My takeaway from this opening discussion is the highlight Angus makes of the consequence for the soul of the Kantian denial of the possibility of Knowing. When our 'Fundamental Desire for Knowledge' (and the implicit feeling that Meaning is achievable) is undermined the result is the sapping of the will and the epidemic of destroyed motivation that is seen so much today, especially in the young.

The possibility of (re-)gaining confidence in that fundamental desire is so very pertinent to ALL human activity and wellbeing.

[forbearancemp]

I love that you are tackling this gentlemen. My experience in questioning nature is that the door opens more widely for me if I prefix the question with "I wonder" why, not just "why". The word "wonder" is what is missing in science today.

[ashvinpandurangi]

Thank you guys for this critical discussion on the art of attaining spiritual sight! It is exactly what we need more of in the atmosphere of Anthroposophy and the spiritual scientific way of being. I have also been writing some Substack essays recently on this topic.

[enexus]

I have been waiting for the return of Jeff. What a great day!

[ikriksik]

Thanks! I agree with the relevance of GA02! It's so beautiful how one of the main themes in anthroposophy, the play between spirit and matter, is laid out here already as a raw juwel, in terms of thinking (spirit) and experiencing (matter). I can also recommend reading the notes Steiner made on this book in 1924, in the last year of his life, commenting on this first book he wrote 38 years earlier (when he was 25). From the first comment on chapter 1:

"And if a plant root is unthinkable without the fulfillment of its potential in the fruit, so by no means only man but the world itself would not be complete unless knowing activity took place. In his activity of knowing man does not do something for himself alone; rather he works along with the world in the revelation of real existence. What is in man is ideal semblance; what is in the world of perception is sense semblance; the inter-working of the two in knowing activity first constitutes reality."

About the difference between Goethean Science and Spiritual Science, that you discussed, he says in the third note:

"Therefore, what is said in this book about the nature of knowledge is valid also for the activity of knowing the spiritual worlds, to which my later books refer. The sense world, in its manifestation to human contemplation, is not reality. It attains its reality when connected with what reveals itself about the sense world in man when he thinks. Thoughts belong to the reality of what the senses behold; but the thought-element within sense existence does not bring itself to manifestation outside in sense existence but rather inside of man. Yet thought and sense perception are one existence. Inasmuch as the human being enters the world and views it with his senses, he excludes thought from reality; but thought then just appears in another place: inside the soul. The separation of perception and thought is of absolutely no significance for the objective world; this separation occurs only because man places himself into the midst of existence. Through this there arises for him the illusion that thought and sense perception are a duality. It is no different for spiritual contemplation. When this arises—through soul processes that I have described in my later book Knowledge of the Higher Worlds and its Attainment—it again constitutes only one side of spiritual existence; the corresponding thoughts of the spirit constitute the other side. A difference arises only insofar as sense perception completes itself, attains reality, through thoughts upward, in a certain way, to where the spiritual begins, whereas spiritual contemplation is experienced in its true being from this beginning point downward. "

In my own words, there is no difference, only in Goethean science the studied objects are from the physical world, and in spiritual science from the world of spirits. In GA06, 'Goethe's Conception of the World', Steiner describes how Goethe never really managed to have his own thoughts as objects of observation. Before we can apply Goethean science to these spiritual objects, we first need to learn to see them..

[white_red_black]

@18:10 Excellent question Jeff! Why did he explicate .... make explicit.? at the same time it is a question that doesn't surprise me becaue you are great at posing questions that encourage us to dig deeper.

[jameskaplin]

We Kantian children need to grow up a little more and start looking into that thing in itself and say Emanuel have you thought of Goethe's process.