Why Stoicism S*cks

#stoicism #ryanholiday #seneca

The stoics have had it good for way too long...

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[NathanJGlass]

After reading some of these comments I'm already seeing Stoicism as less... sucky.

[swad]

I think that being a stoic is a response to the impulsive nature of emotions and it is trying to have a rational response to essentially irrational thing

[TheSnugglery]

Intps prone to stoicism. Istps prone to using the dagger on the guard

[CognitivePersonality]

I believe Stoicism can be employed in moderation relative to necessity - to take anger as an example, one must detach from the emotion to consider its worth within context.

Useless anger manifests through unhealthy outlets and psychological complexes, whereas useful anger is directed towards that which can be changed.

[WeirdStichka]

Anger, in my eyes, can act as a vital motivator into action - towards seeking and actively creating change. When used properly (in control), anger can become a very positive and creative emotion.
Emotions are what make us human. They have the ability to move us into action or freeze us in our place.
I think stoicism is best taken with a grain of salt. I think the one thing worth gaining from it is that we are capable of controlling, or becoming aware enough, of our emotions. and rater than being controlled by them, be instead in control of them and direct them towards better goals.

Love the vid :)

[brittanypage]

I've been an Existential Stoic for the past 6 years, so I'm biased and will have to disagree with you. Stoicism is not about acceptance. It's about recognizing what is and isn't within your control. Stoicism is about the warranting of emotions. We realize the things outside of ourselves are out of our control. Why should we allow things completely beyond our control dictate how we feel or react to things? What I have control over is me, my reactions, my feelings, my interpretations of things, and I achieve all this by valuing my opinion over others and not letting the external world make me behaviour a certain way.

We value on our inner world, for example, I have control over my intention to be on time to a meeting. However, I have no control over if I can't am on time to a meeting. I have no control over the buss breaking down, or my car not starting, or the subway being do full I need to wait for the next one, or the stairs being shut down for construction.

We focus on the inner world, my intention to be on time to a meeting, but investing all our time and energy into this intention but say getting up extra early, or replanning our outfit the night before, packing our bag in advance etc. These are things we can control and anticipate for the error of the external world. By doing so, we have now made our best attempt to fulfill out intentions, but ultimately the external world does what it wills. We have no control over the external world, so why would we let it have control over us?

No one here would be okay with someone kidnapping you, no one here would let someone take control of their body. So why let someone or something take control over how you feel and how you think? If I wouldn't let someone kidnap my body, why would I let someone kidnap my emotions or how I think? That seems very inconsistent if you ask me.

The point is to take back the control over yourself, instead of letting other people and other things make decisions for you. You have complete over yourself, so we stoics actually take complete control over ourselves by eliminating the vulnerabilities of where others could take advantage of us.

[wolfs]

"Concentrate on what you can control" as in not causing unnecessary harm to yourself by wasting energy rather than mindless acceptance

[Not_Morgoth]

“Don’t demand that things happen as you wish, but instead wish that they happen as they do happen, and you will go on well.” - Epictetus, Enchiridion, 8.

The point of accepting the world and whatever circumstance one is confronted with, from the stoic perspective, isn’t for passivity, but rather to eliminate resistance so that action becomes more effortless. It is an attempt to exercise control over oneself, for ultimately, that is all we truly can control. You generally can’t change the people or the world around you, at least not directly, but you can change how you perceive them. Emotional responses like anger or sorrow in and of themselves are impotent, it is action that drives progress, and discerning what action is best is by far easier when one is not influenced by emotion which is inherently more irrational.

Also, was it intentionally ironic when you said you would be “angrily corrected” on stoicism? I thought that was an amusing little detail.

Cheers!

[manager-nim]

I don't know much about stoicism but as a frequently angry person who acts on impulse, I think it's bad to let anger be your reaction to bad situations, but my understanding of stoicism is that you control your anger and use your rational mind to deal with these bad situations, it's a way directing your anger towards something useful rather than just exploding everywhere in my humble opinion.

[RSidd]

I didn't know, man. It depends so how you utilize it. Stoicism helped me a lot in many of my struggles. Was in a nightmarish job with an abusive boss who made every day hell. But, I never lost my cool, kept following the stoic principles, worked out a strategy on my own to get out of there and now I am at a much better place. It can really help seeing the bigger picture because understanding something in a broader context really makes you calm and humble. I am not trying to sell stoicism or anything, but when I had no one to count on, these teachings made me keep going forward and still continue to do so.

[surlamuron]

You got it right. I grew up in a culture that valued stoicism. In middle school, when I was a 12 years old, our physical education teacher lectured us girls about rape. Hush-hush! She told us that if a boy or man attacked us, we should lie back an take it. There was nothing I or we could (or should) do. That memory is burned in my mind.

[casualk]

I heard somewhere that preaching stoicism was a very useful tactic for old Roman leaders to keep people from opposing them

[zzzMrgamerzzz]

Love the way you discuss topics! Keep It up man.
Sincerely, A Practicing Stoic :P

[FlowState]

I want to tell you all about how you misunderstood stoicism, but really took the piss by opening the video saying you're going to misunderstand stoicism.

[sarahcollins]

Anger is a form of communication...it tells others that you feel wronged in some way. We must also remember that anger is with us from childhood, a child that is angry is telling their caregivers that they need help. That they don't have the coping strategies to deal with the stress they are under. (Ask a psychologist, a child that doesn't react with anger to a very stressful situation is most likely shut down and deeply traumatised because no one has ever helped them in the past when they expressed anger and distress)

Anger in adults also indicates a person is not coping and doesn't have the strategies to deal with the situation.

Someone who has developed strategies to effectively cope with a stressful situation may be 'stoic' as they have the capability to redirect the emotion into something useful, but anger squashed because you feel you are not allowed to express it is ultimately harmful as you deny yourself the help you need.

Societies biggest problem is that they see anger as something bad even evil and the person expressing it also bad or evil, but seeing anger as a cry for help would be much better for all concerned.

[daveb]

I see stoicism as the mature mastery of emotion. As an ISTP I might appear stoic but don't feel stoic. My inferior Fe tends to create some undesirable insecurities particularly associated with social encounters. Stoicism for me is matching my cool and calm exterior with a cool calm interior, living life authentically, so that the inner and outer are in alignment. This can only come however, from understanding emotion and where it ought to be applied appropriately.

[cgarcia]

I love it when my husband gets angry at people and things that go contrary to his idealistic world view. It’s a turn on for me because he’s not passively accepting things as is but is motivated to change for the better. He’s also great at being stoic.

[terseduck]

I am a wannabe stoic because as an INFJ i feel a lot and often times I could not control them because I could not understand what i was actually feeling. Stoicism helps me to control my feelings and I think it's such a useful tool for me. However, i really enjoy knowing other people's perspectives.

[marcobaldini]

To feel anger is unavoidable but not in itself helpful; the key is turning it into something constructive.
You are angry because you would like to change something in the world.
Anger pulls you from your natural state of openness and turns you against humanity.

Call anger by another name: panic.
Usually, when you are angry, you are scared.
You are scared that someone’s actions will leave you helpless, or in some way betrayed, overwhelmed or abandoned. This is book notes from Derren Brown stoic book: Happy

Stoicsm is not about accepting everything passively but rather only use anger constructively when it's something that is in your control.

[tareqking]

fear can make you survive by running away
anger can make you survive by killing your enemy
but stoicism make you die just like a chicken waiting to be cooked