A Commentary on building Steam Engines - Blondihacks versus Joe Pie

A Commentary on building Steam Engines - Blondihacks versus Joe Pie
Recently we have seen a couple of talented YouTubers drawn into a somewhat disturbing outcome.
As you will know from my videos, I am a mere hack, my knowledge is presented for entertainment, and I make no claims to be a journeyman machinerer, educator or sage.
For what it is worth, I feel Quinn also presents herself warts and all as she shares with us her machining adventures.
Joe Pieczynski has a long history of production machining and brings us a high quality information driven channel, with many very cool theoretical and practical hints tips and tricks.
Unfortunately there is a gap between sharing and teaching, and taking down others, it leads an audience to be more critical of the teachings being given.
I am uncomfortable with the results shown most recently by Joe, so I called him on this.
In fairness, his response indicates a degree of pragmatism borne of production realities.
My concern is that when "All you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail".
In his response, Joe clearly states aesthetics has ZERO to do with the function of the parts he demonstrated.
So really the question is, are you making a batch of parts? or building a display model of a steam engine?
I know why I pulled down the working Stuart Models James Coombes engine I have, for a rebuild, and it wasn't because it ran badly.
It was the aesthetics.
Why keep building this engine if you don't care what it looks like Joe?
You seem to have missed the point.!

[JBFromOZ]

If the prevailing machinist explanation is "there is no callout on the print for the machined features to be centred on the casting", how do you locate these features to the casting?
A. make it up wherever you like, ignoring the print which shows it as centred on the casting
B. make it central to the casting, and hit the numbers as well,
C. take it back to the drawing office and ask the question, instead of scrapping the part
D. call me names for asking a machinist how to produce a part with the additional given the features were meant to be centred to the casting.

note: there was plenty of meat on the boss for the casting to be centred, it just wasn't by Joe, as the drawing didn't call for it, and he saw this as ZERO importance to the part.

[bobpackard]

I am an old bush machinist, largely self taught, more of a cabinet maker than a fitter and turner. I have learnt more about setups and maching from watching/listening to Blondiehacks build ONE model then decades of beating it with a hammer until it fits. What she has taught me about setups is equally applicable to woodworking. Thank you, Quinn.

[rexmyers]

WOW A tempest in a teapot.. I think it is important to remember: for one person it is a hobby (and I’m learning something) and the other person is a Professional ( I’m practicing my profession). So there is bound to be two different approaches to solving a problem. Let’s learn from both.

[bcbloc]

I generally machine castings to leave most available stock around the most critical features.This means sometimes some features don't come out looking just right but when working with castings you are limited by the quality of the stock you are starting with.

[peteengard]

There is no comparison between Joe and Quinn. Joe does some amazing work with the tools he has at his disposal. Quinn is at a disadvantage using hobby grade equipment and does an excellent job working within the limits of this. Joe on the other hand proves he can make minuscule parts using the professional equipment designed for larger projects.
Keith Fenner once said " Give 10 machinists something and you will get 11 ways to do it. "

[robertpearson]

I aspire to do work the way Joe does it, but more often than not I end up doing work the way Quinn does it. Watching Quinn is like hanging around my shop with a buddy while watching Joe is like taking a college course with an experienced teacher. Apples and oranges and both valuable in their own way. I won't judge either of them because I wasn't privy to the exact conversation they had through private messaging.

[midgoog]

JB,

I agree the drawing is not the best to produce a repeatable interchangeable production part, but the hobby shop is not a production facility, nor should it be. It is a place of recreation and a way to keep body and mind active and healthy.
I've watched both videos.
Both have shown a method to machine a finished part from a rough casting.
Joe's method showed a way to get the get the numbers right without regard to the way the part relates to the other pieces of the finished machine's overall aesthetic.
Quinn concentrated more on getting the part to look better on the finished machine.
Different strokes for different folks.
For me both are a valid way to achieve a usable part using the equipment available to them.
I have taken both methods onboard and can adapt them to any future need for me to make a similar part using whatever equipment I have in my shop.
That is the great thing about the net. People sharing ideas and information in an open forum.

Cheers Eric

[TReischl]

Jeeze, bicker, whine, snipe, wash, rinse, repeat. I am starting to think that Quinn has a bigger pair.

[homeinspectingwithjohnhans]

I am not a machinist. I use hand tools once or twice a year. But I have watched and enjoyed both Joe and Blondi. It was unsettling to see Joe take up this project. But when he did, I felt he should repeatedly have said: This is my way of approaching each part from a production and 'economy of motion' perspective. But his occasional comments crossed the line and felt too much like criticism of Blondi rather than pointing out a simple difference of choice.
This entire scene has soured me on Joe. My choices would have aligned more with Blondi's choices. Most if not all hobbyists will never have the tools or the mindset of a production machinist. And rarely will production machinists have the desire to make hobby projects when they go home at the end of their shift.

[sharkrivermachine]

I have been trying to decide whether or not to start a series on a different model Stuart Steam Engine. I started it many years ago and it still need s lot of work to complete it. Many of the parts however are similar to the parts in question. I think that I will postpone the project until the dust clears on this one.

[primalbeans]

I left face book for this bs childish school yard crap. I can't say I even really frequent this channel enough to get any relevant education. I think the majority of us want actual content rather then bickering. You would have been smarter to message someone directly if you thought it was worth your effort.

I'm out.

[billoxley]

Joe is methodical, and skilled. Quinn is really putting forth her best, and never tries to hide boo boos. Any of us that have been making chips at home have spoiled our share of work as well. Hell, I still blow it and I've been at it for 35 yrs. Hats off to all that put it all out there for us to enjoy. We all do things our own way. Not for me to judge.

[swanvalleymachineshop]

JB, I think Joe's video is more focused about showing some of the procedures to get to a finished part without guess work . Basically methods a trade qualified machinist would tackle the job , there can be a lot of differences the way we tackle a job compared to the hobby machinist . Cheers .

[woodscreekworkshop]

I just can’t see any good reason for THIS VIDEO other than to create tension and stir the pot. People do things differently, people have difference preferences, people place importance on different things, some care only about function, some care only about aesthetics, most fall somewhere between, that’s what makes us who we are as individuals. You keep saying you asked with a spirit of learning, but you call “this is how you do it” mansplaining which contradicts your stated intention. Sometimes people just don’t want to answer thousand follow up questions and have to brush them aside in a polite manner which can make the person asking the question feel dismissed, but that’s how it is. The content creators owes you nothing. Personally, I don’t know what took place between QD and Joe after Joe’s video nor do I care. I enjoy their contents the behind the drama is irrelevant to me. I will give you the benefit of the doubt by saying that you MAY have had a good intention, but it got lost somewhere. You created a video with the sole purpose of attacking another content creator because you got your feelings hurts.

[mathewmolk]

My father used to tell me make everything to the military spec MIL TDD-41. Make It Like The Damn Drawing for once. . I'm a retired engineer and truest me. You want to get one of my #12 Red Wings in your keester start screwing with the specs on my drawing. - Form follows function PERIOD. If you are interested in ascetics go get a job in a metal sculpting studio and get the hell out of my machine shop. - Any "prettyness is purely by accident. If you cant make parts the work for the custmers requirements in an effecient mannor you can't stay. Grab your tool box and stop by accounting and get your money. You are out of here.

And BTW, I love Quinn's videos, but Joe Pi (as in 3.1416 - not as in apple) is a balls out professional machine hand. (Balls out as in steam governor if you didn't know that either)

JB weld is for those that don't know how.

[alangordon]

I have followed Joe Pie for some time and I was somewhat disappointed with his analysis of Blondihacks work. As someone with many years in inspection and an apprenticeship with a company that had its own foundry I spent some time in the ‘marking out section’ where castings were prepared for machining. Large complex castings were all marked out to ensure holes and machining operations not only met dimensional requirements but also aesthetic, a hole mis-placed in a boss can stand out like a sore thumb. With castings sometimes one has to equal out the mis-match to make it look as good as possible. With all the explanations about hypotenuse dimensions and the like has anyone actually calculated the error introduced into the part by Blondihacks aesthetic machining compared to Joe's solution?
But always remembering this is hobby work, not production.

[Angus_McGyver]

I have to say, joe does some nice work, but he seems a bit arrogant. When he bought the same exact model kit to show how it should be done, thats way over the top! Quinn is a hobbbyist, whereas joe is a professional with a high dollar shop. How petty does a person need to be to critisize somebody elses work to make themselves look good?

[Dans-hobbies]

No one is fully aware of what transpired between Joe & Blondihacks, and honestly I'm betting most people don't care. I casually follow Joe, and I'd never watched a Blondihacks video until Joe posted his last video. Something seemed off, and his commentary seemed like thinly veiled jabs. Needless to say It peaked my interest, so i went looking through the comments. I'm not sure how much was in the public domain and how much was in private, but what I have read doesn't paint a pretty picture. it seems like Joe has given some amount of unsolicited advice or criticism and got rebuffed. His last video seems to indicate he now has a grudge or a score to settle. Some people don't wants advice regardless of how knowledgeable the person giving it might be, specially if it's not related to their actual job.

On the debate of form vs function, I'd say somewhere in the middle is the correct place to be. Machinists debur parts, chamfer edges, and polish machined surfaces all the time even though its not called for or required. Joe himself has done this several times.

[richardcooke]

Quinn has said that she is learning as she goes. She tries to hit the dimensions within tenths not because she needs to but because it is good practice, not showing off. She also goes for the aesthetics. Again not called for, just practice.

[KevinWoodsWorkshop]

Pointless video. Quinn doesn’t mind letting viewers know she makes mistakes but she does learn by them just like we all do. When she’s been machining as long as joe she’ll produce the same quality.