America vs Everybody: Will The US Win The Chip Race? - Philip Wong | Endgame #182 (Luminaries)

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Chips have been playing a central role in modern societies across the globe. From airplanes to smartphones; from defibrillators to factory robots. It is everywhere. Therefore, it is hard to imagine a world without it.

The advancement of chips—and thus humanity—will only be possible if, and only if, open science and international cooperation continue to persist. With the current geopolitical turmoil, who is going to pay the cost of chip innovation slow-down?

About the Guest:
Philip Wong is a Willard R. and Inez Kerr Bell Professor in the School of Engineering, at Stanford University. He was the Vice President of Corporate Research at TSMC (2018—2020) and has remained the Chief Scientist of TSMC in a consulting and advisory role. Prior to Stanford, he was with the IBM T.J. Watson Research Center for almost two decades (1988—2004).

About the Host:
Gita Wirjawan is an Indonesian entrepreneur, educator, and Honorary Professor of Politics and International Relations at the School of Politics and International Relations, University of Nottingham. He is also a visiting scholar at The Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center (APARC) at Stanford University (2022—2024) and a fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs.

#Endgame #GitaWirjawan #PhilipWong

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Content:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:03:09 - Childhood & Cultural Background
0:05:23 - Education Journey
0:08:40 - STEM vs Social Sciences
0:12:21 - Migrating Story
0:16:11 - Semiconductor 101
0:18:20 - Moore's Law: A Self-fulfilling Prophecy?
0:22:27 - The Future of Moore’s Law
0:26:14 - “Geopolitics Could Go Wrong”
0:27:39 - TSMC's Secret Recipe
0:38:30 - Comparing Asia, Middle East & US
0:45:23 - AI
0:47:54 - Chip: Modern Sputnik Race?
0:55:21 - Logic, Memory, Special Chips
1:00:17 - How Chips Unite the World
1:07:16 - How Much Is Too Much of Protectionism?
1:11:49 - Is Chips The New Oil?
1:16:10 - Message for Southeast Asia
1:20:00 - Onshoring

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[HyperionLogic]

Professor Wong is one of those rare intellectuals that speaks clearly and able to communicate with normal people. I enjoyed this interview and learned a lot from his ideas.

[cungcung]

This is one of the best source of knowledge on chips & semi conductor in internet. Thank you Prof Philip Wong for sharing his vast knowledge in such simple way. And thank you for digging this out, Pak Gita.

[juhantoon]

One thing I can say for certain is China will emerge champion over US in the chip industry or any other fields for few reasons : 1) China has the critical mass market to support any industry. 2) China has very long term industrial master plan which is well thought out, consistent in implementation and well funded. 3) It is in the Chinese blood that the more external pressure is exerted, the better they will emerge. Classic example is Huawei, Space station, Baidou and military assets, EV, Solar panels, Drones etc. 4) May not be the last but the most important is Patriotism of the Chinese people which the US can never have.

[stanbimi]

Professor Wong described the recipe for building a successful semiconductor industry, but most countries will never get enough required ingredients: talented engineers, scientists, scale, funding, official support, resources such as electricity and water, work ethics & education culture, market, etc. It's not hard to name which countries have most or all of the critical factors.

[luklauw]

We heard it from the professor. To compete, countries need talents and for talents to thrive they need social support. So for Indonesia to be able to have presence in the semiconductor industry, the first thing to do is to prepare our society. We need a society that value STEM more than religiosity, IMHO.

[sridanawindya]

Pilihan kita: kirim anak2 muda kita ke org2 spt Prof Philip Wong sbg mentor dan pembimbing atau ke profesor2 kita yg abal2 ? Cara utk meningkatkan kualitas talent kita ya kirim sebanyak-banyaknya anak2 muda kita ke org2 sekaliber Prof Wong. Kalau tidak, ya 2045 kita menyongsong indonesia berkarat.

[pedjabrankovic]

It is very interesting to notice that China is, in the sense of not strictly tech development, but advancing in thinking, decision making and organisation, exactly at the place where South Korea was back at the beginning of 2000 when they started crossing the barrier of exceptional "me-too" competitor to technological avantgarde. China does it equally well at the level of organisation and developing process, but with one huge difference - quantitative plane. Its overall economy is far more powerful and the raw population is far larger than the Korean ever was. So the results will soon be(and already are to some extent)something kinda Samsung and Hyundai times 5 or more and what is even more important, by jumping over steps they learned from others(something Korea did too, but at far less advanced level back then), China will bring that process at the entire new level.

[NailaDiandra-qw]

Akhirnya topik ini dibahas sama pak Gita karena saya sudah menanti menanti kalo pak gita bakal membahas topik ini saya sebagai pelajar yang mengambil jurusan rekayasa perangkat lunak bisa menambah wawasan sedikit demi sedikit di dunia tech and sains. :)

[BestFitSquareChannel]

Superb! Thank you Mr. Wong. Thank you Mr. Wirjawan. Excellent. Best wishes. 🖖🏼

[gregwang]

Just look at the past forty years, who were leading the US technology development in all fronts? It came from a huge swath of talents from all over the world joining efforts, and now? What a change of heart, it’s the people’s choice, so be it.

[johnlay]

Chips technology is advancing to carbon and photonic, for which China is at the forefront. The US is behind in those areas. So, I don't think the US could win.

[hazelman]

Apa yg saya tangkap dari Mr. Wong adalah berkali² beliau menekankan pentingnya kolaborasi agar semua manfaat dari terciptanya chip dapat dinikmati semua orang di dunia.

Beliau seolah menyatakan bahwa TSMC memilih untuk berada di jalur tengah. Menekankan, monopoli teknologi oleh suatu negara memiliki lebih banyak keburukan dan kemudaratan, selain tidak mungkin hal tsb terjadi sebab apa yg paling membuat kemungkinan kemajuan teknologi chip terjadi adalah karena kolaborasi itu sendiri.

Pemerataan pengetahuan dan akses pada kemajuan teknologi praktis harus dilakukan karena manfaatnya lebih besar untuk kemanusiaan. Pada titik tsb, langsung mengingatkan saya pada sejarah penemuan atomic bomb, dan bagaimana hal tsb membuat satu negara atau satu bangsa cenderung bertindak semena-mena terhadap bangsa lainnya. Untun, hal itu tidak terjadi karena Soviet tak lama kemudian juga berhasil menemukan formula yg tepat untuk atomic bomb mereka.

Taiwan, melalui TSMC dan keunggulan rekayasa teknologi foundry mereka di dunia cenderung memilih untuk bersikap netral daripada condong pada satu pihak adikuasa. Saya memberi hormat kepada keputusan Taiwan dan TSMC memilih jalan tersebut.

Terima kasih Pak Gita telah menghadirkan podcast yg sangat mencerahkan. 🙏🏻

[markarmage]

Knowledge belongs to mankind, the sad and quite ignorant assumption that only one country or one people can have exclusive ownership of technology is absurd.

[banana-stfq]

excellent! good questions and good answers. Congratulations to both

[budyanwar]

looking at current technological developments, the use of semiconductors will increase in the future. I hope that Indonesia can produce its own semiconductors, with the availability of the raw materials needed all in Indonesia.

[WAHYUIKA]

Jadi inget bukunya Chris Miller, Chip War

[Gman]

Not many people are aware of the new alliance between Russian and Chinese scientists which I believe will have a big say in how future technology will be shape and develop.

[hanantosubiakto]

China unggul di jumlah paper, tapi new idea masih US yg unggul. Ketika new idea dilempar dan semua negara tahu, China yg unggul di paper new idea tadi. Scale does count!

[fabwee]

Excellent, , this is how we technologist look at things. Not from the cesspool way up like some.

[AlamKehidupan-xt]

This excellent discussion give me new insight on techology. Thank you pak Wong & Pak Gita.