Was there death and suffering before Adam and Eve?

Doesn’t the Bible say that death came through the sin of Adam? If so, how could there be death before Adam fell? The answer is that we’re not reading the Bible carefully enough or in context.

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#FrankTurek #Bible #Death

[CASTANEDA]

Wow! I'm so glad to see so many people disagree with FT on his position about there being death before Adam and before sin! I agreed with everything Frank said before, but this is just a big NO NO for me! So glad to se I'm not the only one!

[jaymontana]

Just to give my two cents, I agree with a lot of others in the comments here. I nearly always agree with Dr. Turek, but in this case he does seem to be ignoring (intentionally or unintentionally) some other verses, including the details found in the Genesis account. I would love to hear Dr. Turek break his answer down in more detail through a podcast, follow up video, etc.

I doubt he is purposefully misleading people, and I'm sure he has a rational argument for his view, even if he is ultimately wrong.

[devinkrike]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one Frank. Since man brought sin into the world, and death came through sin, it stands to reason that there was no sin before adam sinned and therefore no death. After the 6th day of creation, God himself stated that everything was "good", how would death and predation be good? Also, we can assume there was no predation before the fall by what Isaiah writes about future event where lamb will be laying with a lion. Also, if we believe that god made everything, it stands to reason that he also made the angels. If everything was good after the 6th day, then it stands to reason that satan hasn't rebelled yet.

[lawrencefitzgerald]

I love Frank's videos, but I have to disagree with his take on this one.

[pastorbrianediger]

So when God said that everything was "very good" He was calling death, predation, disease, etc., very good? I don't think so. I agree that Romans 5 is talking about death coming to humans, but death is still an enemy, and the creation was subjugated because of Adam's sin, part of the curse is on the ground because of Adam's sin. Satan's fall doesn't have to occur eons before Adam's. And why have a garden? Should God tell Adam to take care of the whole earth? That seems a little daunting. Not to mention that knowing what would happen, that gave God a way to separate Himself from them after they sinned.

[menknurlan]

Sorry but this is just not right.
Genesis is clear that creation was 'very good'. Watch any nat geo animal documentary. Watch crocodiles tear apart zebra's. Watch lions kill wilderbeast. Watch african wild dogs tear apart and eat prey alive. Does that look very good to you? You actually think that God envisioned that for his creation? Death and suffering? God must be quite evil to create such a world.
Luckily the opposite is true.
God created the world VERY GOOD. And that includes no death. How do we know? Simply by looking at the future of what is to come. Read isiah 11 and 65. See how God us going to restore nature in his milennial kingdom and lift a part of the curse of sin. Read what it says: the wolf shall lay with the lamb, the lion will eat grass like an ox.
Why would God change his supposed first created world of death suffering to a world without that if it was alreadt very good in tge first place? It makes no sense at all.
If it was very good he wouldnt change it. Yet he will.
That already shows that nature isnt what God intended/created it to be. Its because of the curse of sin that is uppon this earth that nature has changed to the suffering and death. God will restore it. That is what he promised. When Jesus Christ will return and reign in his 1000 year kingdom.

[MattCool]

God said,
"And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Genesis chapter 1 verse 30

[dns]

Frank mentions Romans 5:12 as a defense for his long world view. This verse clearly says that sin entered the world through a man and that death came as a result of the sin that entered the world through that man. Therefore death could not have been here before Adam, thus the long earth view is invalid. Frank further mentions Satan's fall as being before Adam was created. The Bible does not say that. All it says is that Satan did in fact fall. What many people fail to realize is that Satan is a spiritual creature and is not bound in the same way and by the same terms that bind us, namely time-space-matter. Satan's fall could have easily been in a spiritual realm that happened to coincide with Adams fall in the physical realm. The point is, is that the Bible doesn't say when Satan's fall was, so since it is silent on that point, we also must remain silent. We need to lean on what we do know that the Bible says. The Bible says that sin and death came through one man. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" Lets not attack Frank. He is a believer. "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:35

[salvadorl]

Disagree. Death is the payment for sin. Sin entered the world by the sin of one man. But salvation (life eternal) by Jesus. The Word of God says so.

[felipemartinez-qssh]

You guy only think about the suffering of humans but don't think about the suffering of our Heavenly Father because of us humans misleading doing everything wrong and ignoring him. Genesis 6:5 Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6 Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened.

[gardengarden]

Dr. Michael Heiser is a blessing

Just adding a confirmation to that recommendation

Never heard him discuss this particular subject but I have been blessed by most of his work that I have heard... coming from a “I don’t think there was death before” person for the record

[adegbeyekayodecoadegbeye]

I am playing this video over again and still wonder where anything like the statute of limitations could possibly apply to the Bible. It is evergreen.

[knckwice]

Before Adam & Eve??? And the Fall before the 'The original Sin?'

[Davichoo]

"THERE COULD'VE BEEN dead long before Adam"
"MAYBE outside the garden it was trouble"
"when we read Genesis 1 we have to transport ourselves back into their minds...because it's witten to them" but when Jesus read Genesis were there any reason to think there were death and suffering before Adam?

SPECULATION is not proof Frank!!!

[spawncampe]

One question for Turek: he always asks "If Christianity were true would you become a Christian" Would the atheists who say yes go to hell?

In better context: he claims that God won't force us into heaven against our will, but if we die and figure he's real, I imagine some atheists would want to go to heaven, so wouldn't he be forcing us to hell against our will at that point

[f_s_m]

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness" 1 Corinthians 3:19

[fkrsnofficial]

To all my brothers and sisters
Focus on the basic doctrines on the bible
Not on tiny little details and scriptures
If you’re not sure, then just wait when you get to paradise and ask God all your questions

[michaelwill]

Have to add my support for those who say that Dr. Turek is usually on point, but here... not so much. Romans 5:12 specifically, while talking to the fact that death had come to humans, doesn't say death already existed. "Could have been" is pure speculation unless one can support it with Scripture. And his further speculation about there possibly being "trouble" outside the garden of Eden... Is there *ANY* basis for that hypothesis that is firmly rooted in Scripture?
The assertion he made, regarding trouble outside of Eden, isn't just waving a red flag, its 1, 000, 000 red flags blowing in a Cat 4 hurricane, that is the feeling I get from it...

[taccophobia]

Does it not say that god made the heavens and the earth and all that was in them. Meaning the angles in heaven. There for there was no death before creation. Certainly not during creation because God saw his creation and said it was good. Death would not be present if God called his creation good. Satan had to have fallen after the seventh day.

[jeffreytott]

I don't believe there were thorns on roses before sin entered the world.