Spitfire vs Bf 109: What German Aces Said

Supermarine Spitfire vs Messerschmitt Bf 109 - is there a more iconic match up during World War 2? Let's have a look at what Luftwaffe pilots and aces said about the Spitfire, what value such statements have in isolation and whether the context of an engagement is not more important than the pure paper performance.

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- Expert guests -
Dr. Jens Wehner @MTGJW

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- Sources -
BArch, RL 39/698, Bericht ueber das Beuteflugzeug “Spitfire II"

Kz-Fernschreiben Ob.d.L. Nr. 8092/40 g.K., Vergleichsfliegen BF 109 E, Bf 110 C, Spitfire, Hurricane und Curtiss, 1940.

Wehner, Jens (2022). Technik können Sie von der Taktik nicht trennen. Campus Verlag

James Holland

Dr. Jens Wehner

- Timecodes -
00:00 - Luftwaffe on the Spitfire
00:20 - Spitfire vs Bf 109: Context
03:56 - Fighter Pilots: What They Say
06:45 - Own a piece of a Spitfire (Sponsored)
07:50 - Pilot's Matter Aircraft Don't?
08:13 - German expert: Dr. Jens Wehner
11:29 - British Expert: James Holland
15:05 - How should we rate aircraft?

- Audio -
Music and Sfx from Epidemic Sound

[jonathan_]

It's pretty rare to have a fighter that's objectively better than one of its counterparts in all aspects. It's more about identifying its strengths and weaknesses relative to each counterpart and then working out and widely adopting tactics that try to maximize your identified advantages and mitigate your known weaknesses vs that other aircraft.

[richardblackmore]

I am old enough to have met a few Battle of Britain fighter pilots who were friends of my father. I think the biggest advantage the RAF had was fighting over home territory so they could engage for longer and have a better chance of fighting another day if they were shot down. Thanks for an interesting video.

[nigelliam]

I read a great book by an RAF Spitfire pilot. He flew at Dunkirk the Battle of Britain. He states how at the beginning of the war it was hard because of the experience of the German pilots then towards the end it was a lot easier because the Germans were only sending boys across to fight. He was killed in 1944 aged 26, it really puts a perspective on how young and brave all the airmen were from both sides.

[ww]

An important consideration is that there was no single “Spitfire” but rather a very large variety of them. The performance of a Mk-IV was significantly different than that of a Mk-IX for example. So it is no surprise that there were a range of evaluation scores over the course of the war. The same can be said if the Me-109, it too evolved greatly from 1939 to 1944. This wasn’t mentioned in the video, but regardless I thoroughly enjoyed it!

[leggedsasquatch]

A further point regarding the Spitfire's effect on the populace. My parents were teenagers during the war.. and not only did the Spitfire have this incredibly beautiful aesthetic but, its engine had an absolutely incredible sound unlike anything else.. a deep roar that exuded power, fortitude and a fighting spirit. This, married with its beauty proved not only an inspiring harmony but also a motivating and lifting of morale. My father was in the airforce too.

Even to this day, the unmistakable sound of a Spitfire is remarkable, so one can only surmise its effect in its day.

[mckaypaterson]

I remember my father's friend, who had been a Mosquito pilot in the European war theatre, had extremely fast reflexs and spatial awareness when playing tennis. He was never shot down and very rarely lost a tennis game. So I would say it depends on the pilot providing he is flying a good machine.

[DaystromDataConcepts]

Both the Spitfire and 109 were amazing and iconic machines.

[JG-ibxk]

It might have been a one trick pony, but that one trick was defeating the Luftwaffe, so of course they're not going to like it

[andrewoh]

The key point about pilot skills being the determining factor is shown by devastating success of 303 (Polish) Squadron when only equipped with Hurricanes.
An often-forgotten factor is the poor performance of the Me109 in landing and take-off. Once the Luftwaffe advanced to the French coast and had to use grass airstrips, they lost 10% of their planes in ground accidents due to the 109s narrow wheelbase and poor rudder authority at low speeds. The situation grew worse when many of the experienced pilots had to be replaced with newbies.
By the time the war started the 109 was already a mature design but the Spitfire was only just coming out of prototype phase. From the first to the last Spitfire mark, it's power and rate of climb doubled.

[dendemano]

I’m certainly not an expert by any means but if this makes sense to anyone who has a greater understanding and knowledge of the subject - a Spitfire was an aircraft that pretty much every pilot was able to get the best performance possible from it, but the Messerschmitt 109 had to be piloted by an extremely skilled pilot in order to get the maximum results of that aircrafts capabilities.

I hope this is a straightforward and understandable explanation.

[madmoses]

There was an "ebb & flow" to the Spitfire vs BF 109 rivalry. The 109E had some clear advantages vs the Spit Mk.I in the Battle of Brittan but the limited range of the 109 and fighting over enemy territory was a major handicap. Then the Spit V had the advantage until the 109 F/G models were introduced with upgraded engines & aerodynamics. Once the Spit IX was introduced the upper hand was secured until the end of the war for the Spitfire in a dogfight scenario especially in higher altitude engagements. You also have to factor in the aircraft design priorities as the war progressed... once bombs started falling on the Reich it was far more important to the war effort to shoot down a bomber than a fighter.

[liamquigley]

It's interesting that 303 squadron equipped with 'inferior' Hurricanes was the highest scoring unit in the Battle of Britain because of it's highly skilled and ferocious Poles and Czechs.

[washingtonradio]

In WWI and WWII, given a competitive fighter, it's pilot skill, doctrine, and other factors that will be important. Part of this is knowing the both your plane as well as the enemy's planes.
The Spitfire and BF109 were competitive with each other.

[BrianParkes]

It was a one trick pony to be fair, fortunately that one trick was knocking German planes out of the sky.

[paulwilson]

My father was a bomber pilot in that awful conflict. He grew up in London. During a conversation he said prior to WW2 he went to an air show and was "dazzled" by the Hurricane and I think a Wellington. They were a quantum leap forward in design compared to previous RAF types.

[porpoise]

So much like Sherman vs Panzer IV vs T-34 or Gewehr 98 vs SMLE:

You get close enough that other factors are overwhelmingly more important than the marginal advatanges inherent in them.

[justicier-]

Oh boy, gonna need to pull up a chair and heat up some popcorn for the comments. Maybe put on fire retardant bunker gear too...

[Tuning]

Thanks to all the contributors to this vid. Are there any longer video's in the works with Mr. Holland & Dr. Wehner, Chris?

[Gentleman...Driver]

So far, as I understand it, the Spitfire did undergo several updates (same with the 109). So, we cant talk about "THE" Spitfire or "THE" 109. Early in the war, it seems, German aircraft were superior. However, later in the war, the aircraft were equally matched or even outperforming German planes. The Griffon Spits were a different beast then the early ones with the Merlin engine.

[mikebarnes]

The Spitfire and Hurricane won the battle of Britain in the minds of those brave young men from all over the world who fought the Luftwaffe [flying circus, to use a matching pejorative]. If they really had inferior equipment, all the more kudos to them; but they humiliated an enemy already drunk with early, easy conquests.