How Orthodox divorce misunderstands Christ: The Catholic Response to Matthew 19

How patristic and traditional is the Orthodox theology of divorce and remarriage? And is their theology good interpretation of the Gospels?

Sources:

Pages referenced: 120, 121-122, 123-124, 84, 82, 85, 129-130, 84, 88, 82, 91, 102, 18, 110-114, and 139-140

[republicradio]

Fact check, i saw a "my litte dark age" orthodox edit and they are more "based" and "redpill" and i get to mix their belifes with what ever else i please so there for the office of peter is discontineued and it probably wasnt anything important any ways

[ishofarabia]

This teaching on marriage shows to me that Catholicism is true, in the same manner as the church’s teaching on contraception. If these were human ideas, of course we would come up with an “out” for marriage and we come up with a way that we can have sex without having the “consequence” of children. The fact that this is considered grave sin shows me that it cannot be man made but of divine origin

[jorge]

I just found your channel, I really like this style of presentation. Great video!

[Calciu_]

St Photini was the women at the well that was divorced multiple times and yet Christ still found her worthy to be mentioned in the Holy Gospel and to preach to her people about Him.

[G__--]

Just found out your channel, great animations, great points in a simple but not simplificated way, truly phenomenal!

[aceraphael]

Nice vid on an important topic. The editing and animations are top notch. Subscribed.

[BossVolt]

Food for thought: If politicial circumstances didn’t force the hand of The Pope, he probably would've permitted the annulment of King Henry VIII's marriage to Catherine of Aragon.

Before the CofE's split from Rome, Henry was known to be a very devout Catholic, having been raised by his very religious mother away from court and dedicated to a career in the Church, before the sudden death of his older brother, Prince Arthur, in 1501.

On top of that, when Martin Luther criticised The Seven Sacraments in his works, Henry wrote a treaty in defence of them and was awarded the title 'Fedei Defensor' (Defender of the Faith), which is still in use today.

[DANtheMANofSIPA]

The Orthodox doctrine is not coming from bishop opinions, but church fathers.

"Nor is it clear from Scripture whether a man who has left his wife because of adultery, which he is certainly permitted to do, is himself an adulterer if he marries again. And if he should, I do not think that he would commit a grave sin."
~ St. Augustine, On Faith and Works, Ch. 19:35


"For I think that the Word here seems to deprecate second marriage. For, if there were two Christs, there may be two husbands or two wives; but if Christ is One, one Head of the Church, let there be also one flesh, and let a second be rejected; and if it hinder the second what is to be said for a third? The first is law, the second is indulgence, the third is transgression, and anything beyond this is swinish, such as has not even many examples of its wickedness. Now the Law grants divorce for every cause; but Christ not for every cause; but He allows only separation from the whore; and in all other things He commands patience. He allows to put away the fornicatress, because she corrupts the offspring; but in all other matters let us be patient and endure; or rather be enduring and patient, as many as have received the yoke of matrimony.
~ St. Gregory Nazianzen, Oration 37.8



"In the case of trigamy and polygamy they laid down the same rule, in proportion, as in the case of digamy; namely one year for digamy (some authorities say two years); for trigamy men are separated for three and often for four years; but this is no longer described as marriage at all, but as polygamy; nay rather as limited fornication. It is for this reason that the Lord said to the woman of Samaria, who had five husbands, he whom thou now hast is not your husband. He does not reckon those who had exceeded the limits of a second marriage as worthy of the title of husband or wife. In cases of trigamy we have accepted a seclusion of five years, not by the canons, but following the precept of our predecessors. Such offenders ought not to be altogether prohibited from the privileges of the Church; they should be considered deserving of hearing after two or three years, and afterwards of being permitted to stand in their place; but they must be kept from the communion of the good gift, and only restored to the place of communion after showing some fruit of repentance."
~ St. Basil the Great, Letter 188, canon 4


"There is no law as to trigamy: a third marriage is not contracted by law. We look upon such things as the defilements of the Church. But we do not subject them to public condemnation, as being better than unrestrained fornication."
~ St. Basil the Great, Letter 199, canon 50


"For it is not only bodily sin which is called fornication and adultery, but any sin you have committed, and especially transgression against that which is divine. Perhaps you ask how we can prove this: - they went a whoring, it says, with their own inventions. Do you see an impudent act of fornication? And again, they committed adulSee you a kind of adulterous religion? Do not then commit spiritual adulterv while keeping your bodies chaste. tery in the wood. Do not show that it is unwillingly you are chaste in body by not being chaste where you can commit fornication."
~ St. Gregory Nazianzen, Oration 37.19


"But this can be tolerated the laity as a concession to weakness - even remarriage after the first wife's death by those who cannot stop with the first wife. And the husband of [only] one wife is more highly respected and honoured by all members of the church. But if the man could not be content with one wife who had died <<or>> if there has been a divorce for some reason - fornication, adultery or something else - and the man marries a second wife or the woman a second husband, God's word does not censure them or bar them from the church and life, but tolerates them because of their weakness. The holy word and God's holy church shows mercy to such a person, particularly if he is devout otherwise and lives by God's law - not by letting him have two wives at once while the one is still alive, but allowing him to marry a second wife lawfully if the opportunity arises, after being parted from the first."

[spartanastas]

Orthodox do not misunderstand remarriage... Orthodox believe that we should get married once and that is it. But in extreme situations, we have a thing called "Ecconomia, " which is a relaxing of the rules to stop someone from giving up all hope. What do you do in a marriage that two people are miserable in? Do you force them to stay together and drive themselves to kill each other and deliver each other to hell? First of all, We are all imperfect human beings. Some Orthodox Churches allow remarriage for this reason: because mistakes happen in everything, and ecconomia gives someone a second chance to get things right. Is it in the canals? I don't think so, but economic is a case by case basis. A Bishop can make an exception to the rule, but he takes responsibility, so they do it rarely. And since Christ said that we can loose or bind in heaven and on earth, I'd expect our Catholic brothers and sisters to understand where we are coming from. Not every marriage is perfect. If we get married in the Orthodox Church, we are more likely to survive than most other denominations because we believe that Christ is the binder in our marriage. It's not to be taken lightly... but sometimes, bad things happen. Economia is designed for those extraordinary circumstances to stop someone from living in hell on earth, and allow them a chance or hope to receive salvation. A strict hand can have many bad results, worst of all, pushing someone away from the Church. If they have no hope of love or salvation, then what purpose does the Church have for that individual? Kindness is a better answer than a steel rod. There is much more to it, but this is an over simplification of what the Orthodox believe.

[comradelightswitch]

Calling Photius a heretic when the Pope recognized him as the legitimate Patriarch and condemned Fillioque 879 is hilarious

[nochillwill]

This video is great. Keep up the good work!

[texasjelly]

I'm still confused as to why most churches ignore the actual Jewish traditions of divorce vs. putting away (e: issuing a gett), which causes the words of Jesus to make more sense, even in the Christian tradition.

[donnied]

I attend Orthodox divine liturgues. I have had direct spiritual experience of flesh becoming one many years before I even read it in the bible. I agree with you Catholics on this one and I have suffered for this experience. But its all so complicated because so much religion falls down to trust me bro and we all know the devil is a lier and religion being run by humans is not incorruptible even your pope and thats the problem.

[TheMountAndBladerX]

That Interpretation and translation of Matthew 5 and 19 "unless the marriage is unlawful" is quite new to me. Honestly im not even sure if thats a very realistic representation of the text.
The douay rheims and the german "aliolli bible" give "fornication" as the translation of that passage.
The commentaries (aliolli for the german and the Haydock commentary for the english) interpret this passage to be about spouses being permitted to live in seperate homes if one has fornicated, not allowing either party to remarry.
For context the german commentary alludes to
1. Corinthians 7:11
"—and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband..."

What is the source/justification for retranslating this passage in this way?

Just for clarification, i dont think this is a big issue. Im just curious.

[SecureInMyHead]

Now explain how divorce is so rampant in South America. You know, the most Catholic land after Italy.

[glorialabella]

But the Church allows for annulments so a divorced person can remarry sacramentally. The “no-fault” legal divorce laws, annihilated the permanence of a sacramental marriage. 💔 13:33

[ishi-bw]

What makes His Excellency, Photios of Constantinople a heretic? Did he not fall asleep, having rehabiliated with Rome? He is also venerated as holy amongst some of us greeks, like the Melkites.

[NonSequiturAdHominem]

This entire video is based on a willfully false understanding about the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church has never considered marriage to be anything other than the witness of Christ and His love for the Church. In fact, marriage never ends, including a first marriage with death. Marriage is eternal. Nothing you've said about the Orthodox Church is factual, including your basic understanding of what the church is, which can be traced through Saints recognized by the Church since the beginning, such as St. Ignatius of Antioch. You quotation of an "oriental orthodox" 'bishop' to represent the Orthodox doctrine is duplicitous and vile. They have been heretics since the 4th century and you find it acceptable to lump them in with the Orthodox. St. Ignatius Brianchaninov is not fringe, he represents the fullness of the deposit of Orthodox Tradition inspired by the Holy Spirit that rests in the Saints. Your willful misunderstanding of the Greek term pornea, which literally means any kind of sexual sin, and is used this way consistently throughout the New Testament, is nonsensical. You also seem to imply that the Church Fathers must disagree with Christ, since they allow for divorce under certain circumstances. You also seem to misunderstand that abuse of the economia for a second marriage under certain circumstances is supported by the Church, when in fact, the canonical allowance for a second or third marriage by Saints venerated by the Roman Catholic Church is considered acceptable only under certain unusual circumstances, and that it is still considered lamentable by the Church, hence the penitential character of the service, and even the canonical restriction on having a celebration for these marriages. In fact, you stoop to cherry picking limited quotations of the Saints and even some non-canonized heretics rather than looking to the canons ratified by the Church's councils. Nevertheless, imagine implying that St. Basil the Great had a lapse in judgment. This is insanity. AGAINST THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF THE CHURCH'S COMMON TRADITION would be your war against the actual tradition of the Orthodox Catholic Church. St. Photios the Great was upheld to be correct by an ecumenical council ratified by the papacy. And somehow in this video, the scandalous practice of Roman Catholics to allow for annulments for absolutely inane reasons is not even mentioned. How is this not an equal assault on the holiness of marriage? It is an absolute mockery of the sanctity of marriage, and a very rabbinic way of trying to circumvent the Law of Christ. In Orthodoxy, the scandal is exposed and acknowledged. Those who are in sin are barred from communion, and those who are desire to repent are required to make penance before returning to the Church. In the actual Orthodox Church, there is a pastoral way to reconcile people who have been willfully sinful back to Christ that the Roman Catholics do not withhold in any category of sin except divorce.

[bobteo]

Been seperated for 15years...3rd party interference. Thru the 15 years...have had thoughts of finding a partner...that didnt work no matter how I tried. Have consulted a lawyer to get opinion how divorce works....that didnt work. Even my priest keep saying No..anullment too. I stop trying now for 8 years. But looking at it and looking at women adopting vanity to the maximum....I backed off from that idea. Todays women will hold the phone more then they will hold you...talk to the phone more then talk to you...then they will many other cheating secrets. So go figure....guys am I wrong???

[josephjacob]

Vatican has once said orthodox sacraments are valid, but with your video what makes their sacrament of marriage different? Is this a teaching or understanding a catholic bishop has said of the Orthodox christians?