The Theodicy Tier List

In this video I rank every theodicy in defense of God in a tier list, from best to worst. This video was inspired by atheist youtuber Genetically Modified Skeptic, who made a tier list video where he ranked the arguments for God's existence.
A theodicy is a defense of God from the problem of evil and suffering. It attempts to explain why, if an all loving creator exists, our world is so rife with pain, suffering and moral evil. Philosophers and theologians have come up with various theodicies to defend their belief in this type of God.

The list of theodicies are:
Augustinian theodicy
Irenaean theodicy
Plotinian theodicy
Degree of desirability of a conscious state theodicy
Contrast theodicy
Finite God theodicy

Let me know what you thought of the video and my ranking of the theodicies in the comments!

Gentically Modified Skeptic's ranking of arguments for God's existence -

Tier list was built using a tier list website.

[JohnnyHofmann]

Great video. Such an injustice you don’t have more viewers. This was a pleasure to watch. I have my queries with some of your views on these theodicies, but, nonetheless, you represented them thoroughly, clearly, and seriously. A lot of the times I’ll used multiple theodicies in one case to have them work in a sort of symbiotic sense to make a single, multifaceted, ultimate theodicy that covers a vast degree of angles. Again, an absolute pleasure to watch. Keep it up (:

[Eridanus]

I liked this idea, interesting format!
I tend to imagine that the universe is under construction. It isn't finished, and this is the process by which God is finishing it. Thus, when we ask "why is there so much suffering?" we are like a construction worker who shows up to his job site one day and says: "what an odd house, why doesn't it have a roof?"
I suppose that's a variation on the Irenaean theodicy.
Looking forward to the Yin and Yang and hero myth video.

[manny]

I’ve only watched two of your videos but I can say reasonably confidently that you are one of the most refreshing and unique content creators in regards to the religion and philosophy conversation on YouTube. This was a really good video in terms of presenting different theodicies and many of them are ones that I haven’t heard before. Thanks for the great content mate.

[someoneonyoutube]

I notice you mentioned the free-will theodicy a few times however did not place it on the list im curious where you would place it and why

[johnwinslow]

Every worldview claiming to be valid must adequately explain the origin, nature, and persistence of evil and suffering in the world including naturalism, regardless of the labels 'religious' and 'non-religious.' Under naturalism, moral evil and suffering cannot be adequality explained

[gnhman]

I think that I just came up with a new theodicy which I would call the "Eis Theodoxan Theodicy" ("Eis Theodoxan" is a Greek phrase which means "For divine glory" or "For God's glory"). This theodicy basically states that God allows moral evil to exist, happen and flourish for a temporary amount of time so that the glory of His attributes; namely, grace and justice, may be demonstrated and manifested through evil. Let us first talk about how God's grace is demonstrated and manifested through evil, and then we will talk about how God's justice is demonstrated and manifested through evil.

Throughout The Bible, we see many instances of God forgiving and showing His mercy and patience to evil, wicked, sinful people who do not deserve His forgiveness, mercy and patience. Take, for instance, King David the Son of Jesse, who committed adultery with Bathsheba, and had her husband murdered. But God, instead of striking King David dead, showed mercy upon King David, and still allowed him to live and repent of his sin. Take, for instance, Cain the Son of Adam, who murdered his brother Abel out of jealousy and hatred. But God, instead of striking Cain dead just as he struck his brother dead, allowed Cain to live, and even allowed him to marry his wife, have offspring, and start a civilization. Take, for instance, Paul the Apostle, who used to be a violent persecutor and enemy of the Church, who would break into the homes of Christians and drag them away to their dreadful demise. But God poured out His grace upon Paul abundantly, and transformed him, from being a violent persecutor and enemy of the Church, into one of His greatest apostles. Take, for instance, Adam and Eve; our first parents, who ate of the fruit that they were forbidden to eat, but God, instead of striking them dead and banishing their souls to Hell the moment they ate the fruit, allowed them to live and have children, and promised that a Savior will come.

Now let us talk about how God's justice is manifested through evil. God's justice is manifested through evil because when God punishes, defeats and destroys evil, His justice is glorified.

[reallydoe]

I just watched gm skeptic and seen your ad and after this gotta sub👍

[richardbradley]

Interesting explanations on a new concept (to me). Thanks for your thoughts and explanations

[MaxCharlesechris]

Very informative and well explained! I like the fact that while you favor some theodicies over others you don't seem to be arguing for them. It's better for perspective that way. I'm a Christian who believes in a theodicy that is slightly different from the ones you presented, but I still enjoyed the video. Great work

[richardbradley]

On the last one, God used to interfer much more in the old testament? An argument for this one? Apologies for all the questions.

[tednash]

Augustine haters will not be tolerated

[dallanharmon]

I actually have a theodicy that is an interesting combination of a lot of these. The original Hebrew text doesn’t actually state that God created everything out of nothing rather that he built everything out of already existing chaos. There are scriptures that talk about intelligences that are at our core and are as old as god himself. In other words God didn’t create us out of nothing our intelligence the piece that gives us the ability to be similar to him is out of his control because part of being perfect and benevolent is to give agency. While God is all powerful and all knowing in order to be perfect he must have a perfection to adhere to. If God breaks the rules he would cease to be God because he would cease to be perfect. God must abide by the laws of justice and mercy and he actually bends the rules in the most brilliant way possible. Whenever we suffer unjustly justice owes us something. The intelligences of Adam and Eve were obviously not the best before they ate the fruit so it really wasn’t fair that the Fall happened. But that’s the point because it isn’t fair they are owed something by justice. However they also are owed punishment for all the mistakes they did make even ones made by accident. This is where Christ comes in. He is perfect and He suffers infinitely so justice owes him an infinite debt. So justice allows our sins to be forgiven on His behalf so that it can both repay its infinite debt to Him while also repaying it’s small debt to us for our unfair suffering. However in order for justice to be willing to forgive us it does have to owe us something. Life has to be imperfect and unfair because we are imperfect and are destined to make mistakes. Unfair suffering is the glue that binds the Atonement to us. It is also true that this environment is the best for our growth and we do need to taste the butter to understand and appreciate the sweet. There must be opposition in all things. As seen with Christ true perfection is to be perfect among the imperfection. The inability to do wrong isn’t perfection true perfection is to be able to do wrong and choose not to. That’s why Satan tempted Christ in the way he did. All of Christs temptations were to use the power He had out of the proper context. Christ would have ceased to be Christ if He had used the power. The same applies to God.
In summary suffering exists for our sake so we can progress and become perfect in an environment where mistakes can be forgiven.
(I’m definitely not smart enough to figure all this out on my own I pieced it together from a bunch of materials and scriptures many of them found only within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.)

[johnwinslow]

Your opening statement is somewhat misleading. Evil and suffering is a problem for all the competing worldviews, regardless if they are labeled religious or non-religious. Every worldview claiming to be valid must adequately explain the nature/origin of, and deal with, evil and suffering in the world.

[richardbradley]

Irenaeun/Hicks does not explain the suffering of innocent children who then die? Free will does not help here?

[grimesresurrection]

You say many of these theodicies fail to justify human suffering particularly innocent people. Who says the answer to that question is just, desirable or enlightening.
Is it possible that it's for a very immoral reprehensible reason since we do live in a place of mass suffering, many in ways we can't comprehend.

[richardbradley]

You seem to confuse original sin with the sin of each individual? I would say that original sin is disproved by modern science and evolution? There was no Adam and Eve?

[highvoltagemanna]

According to Exekiel 28.15, God created Lucifer in perfection with no foreknowledge that he would rebel into a corrupt fallen state. God’s subsequent creation was into a reality where an evil rival already existed and a demonstration before men & angels of why God is God & Lucifer is not was necessary. In the bible revelation of God, foreknowledge refers God’s ability to direct events to arrive at His decreed ends via intervention.

In the gospel, incarnated second Adam [Jesus Christ] was cursed on a tree to balance justice— one sinless man was traded for one man whose sin had led to all men as sinners, then resurrected with the promise that whosoever would receive that remedy, would also be resurrected unto eternal life. In this, God demonstrated wisdom, power, & love decisively that utterly humiliated, outpowered, out- loved Lucifer.

If God is Almighty, why does He allow evil to continue even if He is not the cause? Why not remove it at once? Faith trusts that God is good & wise in dealing with the problem of evil in the way that saves maximum souls; yet, reaches a righteous & permanent end to sin & rebellion.

[eliassmyrneos]

First of all Adam and Eve were not perfect only God is perfect !
The answer is called free choice and then the consequences that’s the doctrine of the universe that the Trinune God Creator, mainly has placed among all the created beings seen and unseen……. thus is the answer.

[danielmann]

Why assume that its bad that exists?

Why not its good that evil exists, but evil is not good.

[kyleaschaber]

If God is all powerful and allows evil to befall on children, he himself is Evil. We are expected to be good and moral creatures but he isn't? At best God is a hypocrite.