A Catholic, Protestant, Atheist and Agnostic Discuss the Problem of Evil

--------------------------VIDEO NOTES--------------------------

The problem of evil is one of the most difficult challenges facing a theist who wishes to defend the existence of a good god. In this episode of the Cosmic Skeptic Podcast, Alex is joined by Joe Schmid, an agnostic, Cameron Bertuzzi, a protestant, and Trent Horn, a catholic, to discuss the problem in detail, and analyse various responses to it.

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0:00 Intro
1:16 Is God's Power Limited?
16:15 Evidential vs Logical Problem of Evil
25:53 The Problem of Animal Suffering
42:23 Skeptical Theism
50:22 Does God Have to be Good?
56:23 Higher Order Goods and The Experience Machine
1:04:20 Comparing Theodicies with Antinatalism
1:10:38 Closing Thoughts

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As always, I would like to direct extra gratitude to my top-tier patrons:

Itamar Lev
Evan Allen
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John Early
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[uniquearahill]

I rather have discussions like this than debates. This is so good.

[MrTheclevercat]

People who think evil is there to teach us lessons have been incredibly lucky to experience so little evil that they think its a game.

[EljinRIP]

"Sometimes I've seen animals in videos being ripped apart and they look so peaceful" Yea and I've seen cartel videos of drug dealers chain sawing each others legs off and they "look so peaceful", it's called SHOCK. It occurs during trauma and blood loss.

[aaronparry]

I'm seeing a lot of comments on the quality of various arguments, but I just want to make sure we acknowledge how great it is to have 4 people with very different views on the topic discussing it in both a direct and respectful manner. Kudos to all involved on keeping everything friendly, despite how heated this topic can get (even just in the comments on this video).

[turgidturbitity]

A Catholic, Protestant, Atheist and Agnostic walk into a bar. The barman asks, "so what will it be?". The Catholic asks for a glass of red wine, the Protestant asks for a beer, the atheist wants to be rationally minded so sticks to drinking water, and the agnostic cannot make up his mind. So the atheist turns to ask him "so what are you having?", to which the agnostic replies "an existential

[TuckerWilson]

"You being oppressed all your life and dying horribly and unfairly is worth it because someone might write a play about it later that makes me cry" is a pretty wild way to justify suffering.

[cuthip]

“I’d rather have racism so we can have MLK” is CLEARLY the take of someone who doesn’t personally suffer from racism.

[TheChef]

I’ve not got all the way through this yet, but I feel compelled to acknowledge 10:27 when Trent had a potential counterpoint to make, but says something like “I don’t want to derail from the point you were making” was a touch of class. Often times these discussions fail to make ground because people talk past each other, and this is a great example of the kind of etiquette that can avoid such a problem.

[TonyKeeh]

This is so awesome. Debates have their place, but I think truth is more readily found when people are just discussing like this. I don't think I've seen content like this, or at the very least, I've only seen it rarely.

Please do more of these.

[richardtanner]

Not a single coaster used. 4 different views, none of them respect wood.

[Stepbrohelp]

I really did try to like Cameron. I’ve listened to him talk on plenty of subjects, but I just can’t ever seem to agree with him on anything, and can’t even see where he’s coming from. I’m 1 minute in and he already has claimed that he thinks the world is better for having slavery and overcoming it than it would be for not having slavery at all, and that animals are sometimes at peace when they are violently being ripped to shreds. And to think this same guy wants to champion his position as the bastion of morality.

[itzyourbwoytchybooxuur]

How this Cameron guy can espouse these sort of positions with so much confidence is astounding!

[RadtasticDude]

It's so refreshing to be able to see a discussion like this be able to take place on the internet. I think that Christians like myself as well as atheists are growing tired of the hostility that has been stirred regarding these topics over the years. Thank you Alex, Cameron, Joe, and Trent for promoting these kinds of conversations and I look forward to more in the future.

[crossjadam]

Really love this format, just sitting round a table with clip mics having a coffee and a thought provoking conversation.

[Lukaaas]

A Catholic, Protestant, Atheist and Agnostic walk into a bar to discuss the problem of evil. The bartender picks up his shotgun and shoots the the atheist, the agnostic and the catholic. The Protestant (Bertuzzi) replies: 'Thank God things like these happen, now I can show compassion.'

Thanks for likes lol. But pls don't hate on Bertuzzi. It was a joke.

[hideshiseyes]

Alex’s response to the idea that evil exists so that certain goods can exist is great. I’ve often thought the same thing, although haven’t ever articulated it that well.

As Benjamin the donkey in Animal Farm puts it: “God gave me a tail to keep away the flies, but I’d sooner have had no tail - and no flies.”

[InigoMontoya-]

In order for you to feel good about having hands, you need to light them on fire every now and again. The pain of flaming hands will remind you how nice it is to not have them burn; therefore, burning hands are necessary- Cameron’s argument against not burning your hands.

[reamus]

What a delightful conversation! Love the format too, so hopefully you continue this whole aspect of sitting with the guys over a cup/mug and hashing a topic out. Love it, and big thanks to everyone at that table for their contributions!

[TomTomTheLeprechaun]

Seriously this conversation felt like 10 minutes. Keep doing this!
I personally prefer this format.

[dayhaysuper]

In a world where bravery and evil doesn't exist, bravery can be seen as a good thing, but it's more of a reaction in spite of evil. When evil terrorizes all of us every day, I can personally say bravery is the least of my concerns. I don't want a brave child with stage 4 bone cancer. I want a child with no bone cancer without the medal of bravery.