What is the Java Job delusion?

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[tea_otomo]

That's actually a problem when people discuss about languages. They don't understand that there is a difference between Startups and big Corps. The later want applications they can easily maintain for the next 10-20 years. So they don't use the new and shiny stuff, they use the stuff that works and has proven itself.

[gabrielfono]

I still remember 3 years ago watching Stefan on YouTube
Fast forward, I gave myself a better chance by teaching myself coding while having a full time job as cabin cleaner working around 60 hours a week am average and still manage to code on the side.
Good new- I have been working as full stack engineer for 5 months now and it is my first job.
Tech stack: Java. Spring, Postgres’s, React, aws s3 and some internal tools 🧰.
Yes it is a corporate amd it is remote but still need to dress while meeting with managers amd stuffs.
This video is really accurate
Stefan knows exactly what he is talking about.
Thanks my friend

[belgianheskey]

React frontend + Java backend skills will get you a job guaranteed. Python is good for learning stuff, for DSA, and online assessments. However Java gets you in the industry

[nicholascherry]

Stefan, LONG time fan. I secured my first job as a Server-Side Java Engineer. I also very much enjoy how explicit the language is and enjoy the workflow. Coding is a big slow I agree, but it's such a fun language to code in. I appreciate you mentioning Kotlin and I need to begin my learning towards that. I have a solid foundation in Java, but I would like to begin focusing on Kotlin now. It's amazing how accurate this video is. I'm a good interpersonal "professional" communicator and so is EVERYBODY else on my team.

[_FORTNITE]

Very good and accurate analysis of Java development. I work at a big bank and everything is shifting to java/spring boot microservices (of course COBOL and mainframe will still be there for the next 50 years). Working in this setting means that you will have to deal with people and do lots of compromises and prioritizations of different tasks, but for me that is a positive. I'm not writing code every hour of the week, which can be nice sometimes. Lots of unforeseen issues show up all the time. You never know how the week will turn out.

I just want to say this to whoever is reading: If you like programming, but also like to deal with people and use your social skills, then working for a big corporation is a good place. Corporations are setup like the army; if you put in work and give good input, it will not go unnoticed. The pay is also very good.

And yes, we run java 19 + all the new shiny tech. Not all corps are slow to change, but it really depends on the tech culture in the corp.

[andyhughes]

I recently went through a Java Web development training program. It isn’t that slow to write basic Rest APIs w/ Spring Boot. But once you try to add Spring Security/Oauth it definitely is challenging. For beginners, the most difficult part is learning how to use Maven’s build tool to add dependencies. Also, Spring itself is used for way more than just web development. I think it’s flexible for many use cases and Maven/Gradle is the most intimidating part.

[guby]

Hey Stefan, i thought this might interest you. Three months ago I finally got my first job as a fullstack web developer at a really tiny company (8 people in total). I applied for a frontend position, but it turned out that i have to do everything because the other five developers are busy mostly working on a big project for a bank, and i take care of the smaller projects for other clients.
I absolutely love that, learned an incredible amount of stuff in a short time doing that. I absolutely get now that it is crucial to get a job asap btw, never could have learned all this by myself.

Here comes the interesting part. Turns out, we use vuejs, spring boot and a postgresql database for pretty much everything (im working on one project with spring boot + thymeleaf rn though). The configuration and overall structure is almost the same between projects, so when a new customer comes along, you can usually just copy a template project and tweak it a little bit.
I asked my bosses why they dont use something like nodejs, and they told me they had done that amongst other things, but always ended up coming back to spring boot. I have to admit i didnt completely get the technical reason, it had to do with scalability, maintainability and modularity i believe. A reason i could think of is that you can use it for absolutely everything, even though it might be overkill in some cases. Also all three of the companys founders had worked on enterprise level projects before, so maybe they just use this stack because it is what they like and know best.
Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know that not every job in java is at enterprise level. Keep in mind though that i applied to a front end position, didnt have a clue about java and the spring framework before i started working there. They told me i got the job because they were under the impression that i could adapt to a new language/framework/technology quickly, and that was one of the things they were looking for. In fact i showed them a python project i was working on in the interview, it didnt even have anything to do with web development. Never would have thought of learning spring boot to find a job in a small company, which is what i always wanted.
Another thing to mention is that i live in germany, so maybe the job market is different here.

[TarlanT]

Once any small company starts to grow.
They always switch to Java on Server Side. And keep JS based Front End.

[sohel_naikawadi]

I agree with most of the points, having said that, Spring boot has advanced a lot. A lot of manual configuration has been eliminated, also the performance with reactive java with project reactor is unmatched. Not to mention the proven longevity has compelled organizations to use java. Now with kubernetes, docker and new ci/cd pipelines, deployment is not an issue.

[christophjahn]

The most important thing in a corporate environment is code readability. Far more so than how long it takes to write code. A senior developer will typically spend 80% of his/her time to read and understand existing code that needs changes.

[kawan]

I have yet to meet a single experienced jobless Java developer. So conclusion is that => Learn Java

[dsinghr]

I will tell you reality. Good Java coders who know their shit around Spring, hibernate, JPA, spring security, spring boot etc. are in super high demand. Corporates are going out of their way to hire good Java engineers and paying extra. Plus if you are already working in a project for sometime, there is a job security angle which many people prefer. The reason is that Java is very hard and scope is humongous when you consider all the frameworks around it. There is no substitute for Java when you are talking about building real time data engineering

[AstonJay]

This is absolutely true! Recently got word for a job at a well established vehicle company that is building their software in Java and most of the job is basically back-end work communicating with the servers, etc., but the pay is so good...
The job is a "hybrid" model (office and some WFH), but people are pushing for more WFH days for the devs.

[nandomax]

I went to Java because I knew I was going to work with big companies. I work to a Brazilian digital bank that went international. We work mostly with Java 11+ ans Golang. What I like the most here is that we have little dress code (any kind of long 👖 and any kind of t-shirt without logos and drawings) and they are really good with the remote work model. We also have a really simples deploy pipeline, a lot of DevOps implemented, we run all in AWS. May be I'm in a really new niche for Java, with modern deploy pipeline and modern server side architecture.
It was nice to here your opinion about it, because I may be working in a company that is the exception for Java. I'll ponder about learning Golang

[dominicnzl]

7:17 I don't understand, a missing semicolon would cause a compile error. Does your friend not work with an IDE that catches it before he commits?

[Madthrax]

Personally, I like Java for prototyping in industry (aeronautics). I work in a R&D department in a big company, the portability is great, the verbosity is nice for complex algorithms, easy to learn, has good perf, etc.. We are able to run it on Raspberry, drones etc. For me it's a little step before passing the algos in C++ for MVP.
If I need something more technical I run Matlab.

[MarkGla]

You must have a great job. Congratulations! They are rare. I started programming in Java when it was a new language. I've been developing Java for over 30 years now. I've encountered all kinds of employers since then. I'm still developing new Java Apps. I'm also maintaining legacy code. This is the life of a software developer. You speak in generalizations which apply no matter whether it's a new langauge, an old language. It doesn't matter if your young or if your old. It doesn't matter who you work for. The soft skills you speak about are important everywhere. Javascript, and Python are older technologies than Java. There are many legacy apps that are written in Java. Many companies are still using Java. Java, like most languages, will grow and stay relevant. You do say some thigs that are true. A company will use whatever technology is important to their business. Consider where and what you want to do and work towards that goal.

[tasheemhargrove]

Strict typing, in conjunction with simplicity, is more important than both write speed and runtime speed. This is why the overwhelming majority of jobs posted are in Java and C# in pretty much every city. Companies tend to want to eliminate a whole class of errors that comes with loosely typed languages like Python, which is why Python is mostly used in academia rather than industry. Even on the frontend, companies are moving toward Typescript.

Languages like Rust and C++ usually don’t make the cut due to their complexity. They have the strict typing part but C++ in particular defeats the whole purpose by introducing a new category of bugs (pointer-related). A company needs to be in a position where speed is a serious priority for them to commit to those languages.

[VineethShankarMaller]

I am a backend developer working on microservices with spring boot. Agree with almost all the stuff except for the part where you mentioned that it takes a lot of time to configure spring applications especially with XML files. This used to be the case until Spring boot took over and its been a while. It doesn't take much time to develop in Java as long as your task is well defined to begin with. Also as a developer, semicolon is embedded in my subconscious.

[APakistaniMuslim]

Hello Stefan!
That's awesome video for someone who loves writing code in Java. I will slightly disagree from your Spring boot point of view. The older versions of Spring MVC like 7-8 years Old, yes they required lots of configuration files but now a days, the Spring boot made life really easier. Its all annotation based and handles most and most of the boiler plate code in itself and by its AOP paradigm it actually lets the developer focus only on business code taking away almost all of the cross cutting concerns. You can write a complete MVP in just few hours if not minutes with a valid RestAPIs, FrontEnd or anything you like.

Moreover to compliment spring boot with other front end tech like React/Angular, there comes other Scaffolding frameworks/tools like JHipster, you can write a complete MVP Crud app with proper front end and back end layer in just couple of minutes and then build upon that as MVP gets approved.