Going Over Catelyn IV, A Game of Thrones

Rereading A Game of Thrones. Here's me going over Catelyn IV, AGoT

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Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil war among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
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[jj]

I can’t wait to listen to Preston analyze Kevan’s epilogue with my grandchildren

[paulcato]

I completely missed the fact that Littlefinger is in his late 20s. That is wild.

[wyomingptt]

Preston is great at making really interesting observations and nice catches as well complete non-sense, self insert takes and he's so confident about both lol.

[nyuzotturunk]

Okey, here is my interpretation of the dagger affair:

1. First of all, I don’t think Littlefinger is behind the catspaw. He wanted to blacken the Lannisters with Lysa’s letter. He can’t predict Bran’s fall, and even if he became aware of it, he don’t have to organize a risky murder attempt from half a continent away to reach his goal. He is improvising… and he is lucky of course, but maybe not to an incredible extent. (See it below.)

2. One more clause: I think Tyrion is just a frequent guest in the court, and not a permanent resident of King’s Landing. On one hand, Cersei doesn’t like him; on the other hand, he has a job at Casterly Rock (the supervisor of cisterns and drains). And in A Clash of Kings, he doesn't behave in the court as if he usually belongs there; doesn’t even have a room of his own. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think he even notes that the atmosphere of the city is different from his previous visits.

So, back tot he dagger!

3. Varys learns about Catelyn and the dagger from the conversation between Ser Cassel and Ser Santagar. It makes the most sense, as the ship’s captain couldn’t know about the dagger. Although Moreo could be the source of the inn where Cat stayed.

4. Why did Varys took the news to Littlefinger? He might have brought Cat into the castle just the same, and could have talked to her face to face, alone. He could only wanted to involve Littlefinger in that discussion for one of two reasons: if he hoped to get some information or leverage that way. So my guess is that Varys recognized the dagger, as Petyr’s property. If that happend, it’s a prity good plan from him to bring this meeting together between the three of them. If Petyr denies owning the dagger, he can expose him. If he admits it, he makes himself suspicious in the crime Cat probeing about (whatever it is). Both way driving a wedge between Peytr and the Starks, who just became a new players in the game of thrones.

5. This of course assumes that the dagger was actually Petyr's and that it came to Robert’s possession from him when Petyr bet on Jamie. But it had to be his. Not just because Varys organized this meeting, but because otherwise Petyr couldn't have lied about who the dagger belonged to. Otherwise the chance of failure is way too high, espceially in front of Varys. And of course it would be very typical of Robert to bet against Jaime in the tourney. I'm not sure, but I think in a Cersei or Jaime chapter she/he did recall Robert bragging about winning something by betting against Jaime.

6. Petyr recognized the dagger and Varys’ little trap. He could reveal that Robert won the dagger from him, but that could be dangerous in two ways. On one way, the dagger was clearly an instrument of some crime. Claiming that it’s the king’s dagger is almost like accusing the king with the crime – in front of the Master of Whispers. On the other way, Robert and Eddard are close friends. Cat might not even believe that the dagger could have belonged to the king.

7. So Petyr have the engenius idea, and switch his bating opponent at the tourney. He didn’t lost the dagger to Robert; he lost it to Tyrion. He allready trying to frame Cersei and Jaime with the murder of Jon Arryn via Lysa’s letter. Of course neither of them could possibly bet against Jaime… but Tyrion could. We know Tyrion never bet against his family (at least not yet), but this isn’t have to be a well-known fact, especially because, like I said, I believe Tyrion is just a frequent guest in the court, and not a permanent resident.

8. Later, when Cat is in the Erie, she wonders about that in her letter, Lysa only accused Cersei and Jaime, and started accusing Tyrion only then, in person. This would explain that: when Petyr made her write the latter, he wasn’t thinking about Tyrion. But he was the only Lannister he could accuse rapidly during this conversation. After that, he could write for Lysa to add Tyrion to the list of murderers.

9. What is Varys’ reaction? We don’t know of course, the chapter is ending after the accusation. Varys is probably uncertain if Petyr was honest or not, so he says nothing. Can he find out later who won the dagger? Maybe. But if it wasn’t a loud bet, but a more private one, then it’s a difficult task. The only two person who have to know about it is Petyr and Robert, and they have no reason to talk about it. (Although there is that bragging I mentioned before.)
Varys can ask Tyrion of course… but Tyrion is not at court presently. If Catelyn didn’t capture him at the inn, ha would probably have turned west at the crossoards and would have gone home to Casterly Rock. He arrived back to King’s Landing so soon only because of the War of the Five Kings.

10. But I think at the end Varys believes that the dagger is Tyrion’s. When he talking with Illyrio in the secret tunnels, he saying „the fools tried to kill his son” and „the wolf and the lion will soon be at each other's throats”. (At least in the Hungarian version; I confess, I have never read it in the original language.) This makes only sense if he thinks the Lannisters wanted to kill Bran. Littlefinger is not a multitude, so he wouldn’t be foolS… nor one fool even, as he successfully pinned it all on the Lannisters.

So this would be my interpretation of the situation. It’s probably not perfect (and maybe I'm wrong about half of these ;) )… but it explains both Varys’ and Littlefinger’s motivations, and don’t require either of them to be a moron or a lucksack.

Of course it’s still a huge coincident that the catspaw just happend to use Littlefinger’s dagger… but the choise of weapon will be always the most puzzleing part of this assasination attempt, regardless of who was behind it.

[maxwell_j_R]

43:43 Why would Varys need spies at Winterfell for this information about Bran? It was likely just information sent with a raven when informing the small council that Ned accepted the position of Hand.

It's also unlikely that an informant in Winterfell about the dagger could have gotten a message to King's Landing faster than Cat's arrival.

[Longshanks]

I would dispute the Thomas Cromwell connection because Cromwell was an unfailingly loyal servant to Henry VIII, who did everything in his power to serve his monarch faithfully, which is the exact opposite of who Littlefinger is. The Cromwell parallels end with them being self made imo.

I would say Littlefinger is more analogous to someone like Talleyrand, a political opportunist who knew which way the wind was blowing on any day and how to attach himself to the winning party so he never had to pick a concrete stance on any of those factions.
But even this has its problems because I think Talleyrand had more principles than Littlefinger and Talleyrand was more of Pycelle’s show philosophy of “I just want to be in the garden, ” whereas LF very much wants to be the tallest flower.

Honestly, Iago from Othello might be who George drew the most inspiration from over anyone in history.

[oskarplate]

18:37
In Bremen (Germany) is a famous district called Schnoor which is based on the german word "Schnur" (English: string) that has very narrow alleys. There is one called "Catwalk" (German: Katzengang) where you have to wait somtimes on the other side for persons going the opposite way to pass since it is only 80cm in diameter.

[olnocvx]

if you've never seen an alley so narrow that two men could not walk abreast you've clearly not been to any medieval town or village in europe

[durianthesleepy]

So Cat gets her fingers cut by a catspaw, Cat takes the cat's knife, sails the White Knife to White Harbor, sails around The Fingers to go meet Littlefinger at the same time as the new Hand of the King?

[GodKingReiss]

Sixty silvers going to the rowers of a sixty-oared ship implies that George thinks every single oar has just one man pulling it.

[williamsolomon]

It's funny hearing Preston mispronounce a word - reminds you that he is still human despite the mega brain. "Quay" is a word everyone here in Sydney knows is pronounced "key", because the city was founded on a place called Circular Quay.

[conorkelly]

Hey Preston, don't you think it's possible that Aron Santagar works for Varys? Explains how Varys knows the details of the conversation with Rodrik without relying on little birds. Later on, Santagar tilts to a stalemate with Lothor Brune (Littlefinger's crony), which reflects the battle between their masters. Santagar is killed in the riot of King's Landing, which as you have said yourself was likely orchestrated by Littlefinger.

[emarti]

If Catelyn literally had every crew member of the galley on the deck and then gave them all silver coins, someone would have noticed an auburn-haired lady.

[elinakeranen]

Have you never been to central Europe? It's very common in old towns to have so narrow streets two people can't walk side by side. You can touch both walls without reaching.

[MrPhbahia]

Good to have you back PJ! The world is still here!

[ashleyrodd]

Why does Preston think a ship's ram would be above the water line? He knows what its for, right?

[jssandler]

I think Little Finger is like George. He sort of "gardens" chaos in the 7 kingdoms. Depending on how things play out, he improvises. His aim is to simply shake things up as that's the best way and perhaps only way he'd have a chance of sitting the iron throne. And of course, setting major houses to killing one another only decreases the number of claimant's to the throne.

[CosmicCorviknight]

The absence of a settlement at the Blackwater Rush pre-Targaryens is part of a general issue where Westeros is severely lacking urban centres. Real medieval Europe had a lots of cities which were home to thousands of people and huge numbers of big market towns too, but Westeros seems to be overwhelmingly composed of fortified keeps which small populations gather around or isolated small peasant villages. The Free Cities seem to be the parallel to the urban city states of Italy but even a small country like medieval England seems to have more urban centres than the whole of Westeros

[TheEnecca]

I feel like this insane near death experience of rodrick is really glossed over by the characters and by preston.

[Mj_Jetson]

Why Catelyn insists on going to King's Landing herself instead of sending someone else... I guess its a core part of her character to have a strong sense of what stuff is in her purview, and to insist she does that stuff herself? Not that she she's a control freak; I don't mean that at all as her purview is very narrow, just that when she thinks something is her duty, she 1000% does it.
She nurses Bran, she takes the dagger to King's Landing. When Robb wants to send her to treat with Renly, she's not happy about it because she feels her place is at Riverrun, at her father's dethbed. When Robb plans to send her to Seagard after the Red Wedding, she's not happy because she feels her place is at Winterfell, mourning - " _and for me, two dead sons, an empty bed, and a castle full of ghosts_ " - or back at Riverrun (also to mourn?) - " _if I cannot continue on with you, I would sooner return to Riverrun_ " and her hostility to doing anything else is so predictable that Robb counts on her to object and makes a trap of it, so that she feels she can't object to his next proclamation about naming his heir. Throughout AGoT and especially ACoK, she faces huge internal conflict wanting to be with all her kids, but logistically she can't, and is torn apart having to prioritize them against each other and her others duties.
It might not be objectively logical for her to very quickly want to go to KL after spending so long obsessing over Bran, but when are people logical? It has an internal logic to it, and that's what matters.