Which is the Best CNC for You? Avid CNC or Phantom CNC?

I wanted to do this video on my journey into CNC and what I wish I had know before I got too deep into CNC. The machines are a huge investment so I want to help by sharing my experience with both a "bolt together" style CNC and a welded frame CNC. If we are going to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on equipment, I want to make the right decision the first time. I did not. But that is fine, maybe you will make the best decision for you with the help of this info. This is my knowledge of the @AvidCNC and the @phantomcncsystems pro level machines and what I found to be good's and bad's of both by owning and using both. Neither company gave me machines of money for this video. I have owned both machines myself and have used both systems for hobby and production runs. Let's dive in.

Disclaimer as of Aug 2022. Phantom asked me to start talking to some of their customers because of my now knowledge of their machine and they were impressed by this video. There is no way to go back and edit the video to reflect this so a disclaimer will have to do.

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[assassinmx]

Thanks for all the info. I've had 5x10 avid for a about 3 years now and I'm seriously considering selling it for a phantom. I have to many issues with chattering and accuracy.

[Livid_Idiot]

This guy is listed as a "Phantom Dealer/Content Creator" on Phantoms website. Maybe pin a comment disclosing when he became a dealer would give his opinion more weight. Not disclosing this is, to say the least suspicious.

[jeffreyjingle]

It’s great video giving points to both sides. My only problem with Phantom is that when I spoke to the owner on the phone he pretended like these were made in the USA and made false claims like “our engineering team spent years building these” as well as “we have a bunch coming back from the frame shop right away”. When these are actually manufactured by Utech in China and just shipped here in a sea-can. Anyone could order these exact machines with their own paint schemes straight from them and resell them just like Phantom has. I have no problem with companies doing that, however I don’t appreciate being lied to and that’s why I’d never purchase from Phantom

[tomim]

Was going with an Avid but, now considering a reconfiguration of the shop to accomadate the Phantom. Thanks, Nick, you may have saved this old guy a lot of time and money!

[Crushermil]

I found your review/comparison to be well balanced and fair. I'd like to note that you didn't include labor in your pricing which I think to be fair you should have. If one system takes 5 days assuming 8 hours per and a rate of $75/hr that's an additional $3, 000.00. Price may vary... Let's face it, time is money. If your more of a hobbiest and like tinkering the choice is obvious and likewise if your in business and all about production I think the choice is equally obvious.

[natecampbell]

We bought a custom machine from Phantom and it has been great. 5x10 table, taller Z, ATC and a rotary axis. An amazing deal compared to what it would have cost for an equivalent machine from a large brand name like Laguna. We spent a fair bit more then the best Avid setup but also got a lot more. For a machine with similar capabilities to what you can get from Avid is in the same price range. I think that if you are looking for a machine as a business the choice between it and the Avid is a no brainer for all the reasons mentioned.

If I was going to give it a fault it would be more on the control side. Mach 4 works but has short comings and definitely isn't a finished full stable commercial solution. But this is likewise a issue for the Avid. It's probably less of an issue if you are not running a ATC and simple doing panel work.

I would recommend Phantom CNC machines with no reservations. Great product and good service.

[bendelliskave]

The true issue is competition.Makes perfection having said that. To be perfect you have to get feedback.

[dzee]

If you have pissed off some folks on the comparison between a Professional reliable CNC machine and build your own machine. After you mentioned the company has employees that are makers not marking people that tells me there success is based on what they deliver to their customer's. Thanks for the Video. I built my CNC 20 years ago to understand the mechanics of the machine and G-Code. You are simply providing NON BULLSHIT comparative information between what you already have been using and you have the right to identifying those differences since you experienced it.

[davidevans]

I bought a Phantom in October. Im very pleased with it and the company

[joshpit]

I purchased an Avid and use it for Plasma. Very happy with it, but mostly purchased it because I needed to get it through an ordinary door. No other machine offered that ability. I purchased the 4'x8' model, but honestly I should have purchased the 4'x4' model because I didn't anticipate how heavy and awkward the full-sized sheets can be.

[TheCarlTuckerson]

Can't thank you enough for making this video. I am looking to get into CNC and this is the most informative video I've found yet.

[josephgregory]

Great review! You make some very valid comparisons. I only disagree with you in one area. The X and Y NEMA 34 drive systems. I spent my engineering career working in driveline systems (43 years) as an automotive engineer. I can tell you that a belt drive system like Avid's will have way less back lash (zero) which equates to positional error than a gear driven system like Phantoms Its just physics. Positional error equates to less control and repeatability in your cut. If Phantom incorporated a drive like AVID I would probably purchase one. One last thought, If something fails in the Phantom like this gear train for the X and Y axis, how readily available are the parts? Are they coming from China and if so how much of a guarantee does the end user have that these gears will be available in 10 years from now? Support and availability long term is something everyone should be concerned about. As far as the movement of the frame. I circumvented this by placing my wood sheets on the cross frame of the AVID. Rock solid and a great storage area in a small shop. And no I am not a dealer for Avid or have anything to do with them. Thanks Again

[a.b.]

Thank you for such compressed walk through all the differences.
The only thing, I feel sorry for you guys not having the opportunities of 230V three phase power supply available by standard all over the country.

[professionaltinkerer]

Just something to point out here… “pro level CNCs don’t use belts”… yeah, that’s not exactly true. I happen to work on multimillion dollar industrial CNC machines and nearly all of them have one or more axis that use belts in their power trains, even in high precision systems that repeat to 0.001” tolerance. Belt driven systems have benefits and weaknesses just like every drive system, but one of the main reasons that it is used in industrial CNC applications is basically as a “fuse”… belts are cheaper and easier to replace than a gear or gearbox after a major crash.

[aaronhansel]

"Walking across the shop floor" is a pretty big stretch. My Avid 4-8 does indeed have that movement you showed in the clip, but it has never moved from its place.

[jlpease]

so glad I came across this video. Phantom is only about 1 hour away from where I live and I was looking for a little beefier solution than Avid. I contacted them and selected that I was referred by your company. Thanks for sharing this video.

[Wow-elgy]

Boy, you don’t even need to tell us which one we should or shouldn’t buy. I think we all here in the comments section already know lol. Thank you for making such a great video!

[aaronjaggers]

These are good people who are working class dudes that are offering this equipment at blue collar affordability. Anyone can get one and get started building wealth . Theyll back you . I’ve gone to see the 5x8 and met some of there people in Georgia and are great . I will be buying there machines exclusively to build my shop .

[JNWoodworks]

The Phantom looks like a great machine, and the price is good too. If you have a production shop, and they have the specific size and capability on the Phantom that you will ever need, and you really need to run at maximum speed all the time, then it is probably the right machine for you.
However, to be fair, I think there are a lot of other cases where the AVID makes more sense. The AVID is not only customizable in size (as you mentioned) but just as the frame is easy to build and ship for AVID (as you mentioned), it also makes it easy to customize by the user. The software is very open so you can do a lot of customization, you can add lasers, plasma heads, and many other things on your own because everything is documented on the electronics and the SW and they support you making your own modifications. The different customizations I have seen on the AVID machines by users continues to amaze me. You can also assemble one of these in a basement or inside a room that just has a walk door. If you don't need super fast production speeds, you can always compensate for rigidity with speed (I can write letters 0.010" high that are very clean with the laser on my AVID machine). So I do think its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison overall, you just picked your specific use case which does make it apples to apples, and in your case, the Phantom makes more sense :-)

[scobob]

This is the difference between making a CNC for the challenge and using a CNC. I built my first CNC in 2009 and I learned a tremendous amount about the machine as well as the workflow so there is nothing wrong with going with the Avid if that's what you want. If you want up-time and make $$$, Phantom, Leguna, Thermwood are the way to go. I think the moral of this story is, don't think you'll save money building one unless your time is worthless. I spent 6 months and $10k building mine from scratch. That's conservative.