Banding in Concert Photos | Ask David Bergman

Today's question from Jeff S. is, "What causes banding in concert photos? I usually experience it when there's a lot of smoke and black light in the scene."

Banding in Concert Photos
00:00 Intro
01:43 Why do concerts use LED lights?
02:58 What causes banding?
04:15 Fixing banding in post-processing
04:54 Mechanical or electronic shutter?
06:06 Shutter speed and banding

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THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING!

[tanweercaa]

Another great full of information clip, excellent job David👍

[jeffreysolomon]

Thanks, David for answering my question!

[MMPAspergerian]

Thank you David! I have experienced this also and didn't know how to resolve it. Now I do!

[alan.macrae]

Great video, David. Shooting under LED stage lighting is exactly like trying to shoot pictures from a TV screen. Slowing your shutter speed is key but, obviously, not always doable. Have a great season on the road.

[mattorrz]

I’m not a concert shooter so I haven’t seen this issue before but, damn that was interesting to watch.
Fantastic explanation as always David 👌

[chrispatmore]

The banding problem is not that different to shooting a strobe at too high a shutter speed with a focal plane shutter, except part of the image is not exposed at all rather than just bands under/over exposed. Another problem with LEDs is if they are used in one of the RGB primaries, especially red. The sensors tend to struggle rendering those as they are just getting one colour channel blasted. It's things like this that make shooting concerts and gigs so challenging and exciting.

[simonvail]

Thank you David for this lucid account of banding, concerts and silent shutter. I recently shot a dance event at 640/500 of a second during a live performance and had to use electronic shutter. The results with teh Canon r6 were unusable....I've read the posts about reducing shutter speeds as the only way out. There are only hard choices! Interestingly no-one has talked about trying to photograph ballet or dance under LEDs where fast shutter speeds and silence go hand in hand. Thanks again.

[rogermanning]

Excellent explation of a common problem. I seem to notice it most with shots taken during changing brightness levels . . . less so when the light level is steady. We'll see how I can problem solve it 19 days from now when I get to "Shoot from the pit" in Indianapolis . . . not that I'm counting. 👍

[sveinskogen]

Actually, fixing in post process isn't THAT hard, but you have to understand what it is you actually are seeing. The banding is a result in luminance difference, so you need to create a mask full of gradients that align with the bands, then apply luminance changes with that mask.

However, it's even easier to avoid the banding by working inside the shutter sync speed. For most of us, that means 1/200-1/250. Which limits what movement you can freeze a lot.

Or you can ask the light people ahead of the event what frequency their lights work at (all of these lights have a fixed pulse rate, and vary their brightness by how long after pulse start the LED remains lit), and use a shutter that is a common denominator of that frequency. Takes a bit of maths, but is doable.

[emilycross]

A related issue is rolling shutter using electronic shutter when trying to capture a drummer, the drum sticks warp depending on the write speed. Best solution would be a global shutter, or faster write speeds. Faster shutter speeds risk banding from the LEDs as mentioned in the video. The Sony alpha one has a very quiet mechanical shutter. Shooting in silent mode on most mirrorless cameras is currently an issue, especially higher megapixels with longer write speeds. Great video, very helpful.

[jwleemedia]

This is the only problem I have found with my Z9. It excels in every area of photography but is absolutely terrible with concert photography. Even the variable shutter speeds don't seem to have much affect. And when you're mainly shooting rock/metal musicians, 1/125" is simply too slow. I often need to be at 1/250" or better to minimize motion blur.

[ItsaCatsLife]

Thanks, I've been get banding at our new venue with 99% LED lighting now... I'll switch back to mechanical shutter and see how low I can go with s/s.

[Jambo]

What I get on my Sony A7S III is a fine mesh pattern at 1/250. But only appears when I am in one place. The bar has 4 large LED lights pointing towards the camera, and often in Red.

[robjeeves]

Interesting, thx David, Now we have the A9 III Global Shutter and expect other manufacturers to follow suit.

[yomismo]

I've been voting 50 votes every day, I hope you'll be the winner.

[VAudioVideo]

How much does the anit-flicker feature help? For instance, if banding is shown at 1/250 and only once gone down to 1/125 does it get better with the feature turned off, will the feature get rid of it at 1/250 or only up to about 1/160th? And would a camera with a faster reading sensor allow one to use a faster shutter speed? If so, any examples to give an idea on max SS? An example type I am looking for is, and these are made up numbers, a Canon R6i can go to 1/200th and a R6ii can go to 1/1000.

[DragonfireRC]

You will only see LED banding when using the mechanical shutter if shooting at shutter speeds above the camera's X-Sync speed. Above your X-Sync speed a focal plane shutter acts just like a scanning sensor where only parts of your image are exposed at a time. You will not have this problem with cameras that utilize a leaf shutter, even max shutter speed with a leaf shutter is exposing the whole image at once, no scanning effect. These venues are cheaping out with the LEDs they purchase, they are not buying the more expensive Movie and Stills rated lighting to eliminate the LED banding issue for photographers and videographers.

[rcarder]

I had banding in an indoor soccer event at a new complex. Turned on Anti flicker on my R5...problem solved. I've also noticed new car headlights bink while recording video with the R5.

[DevonLad]

I shoot a lot of Theatre and weddings (and wedding receptions where this is also becomming a problem). The anti-flicker and variable shutter on the Sony A7IV are amazing but you still need slow(er) shutter speeds to avoid the banding. My main issue is in the UK I often find the SS needed to eliminate banding is around 1/60 to 1/80. On a 70-200mm that's very risky so I duel camera and have a wider lens if I'm sturggling with the telephoto.

If you can use strobes and speedlights then life is much, much easier.

[hellotoddsky]

Thanks for the quick info! Would you say that Electronic First Curtain is the best of both worlds when you can't shoot mechanical? Also, for concerts where you need to shoot quietly I'm guessing electronic is the only way to go, right?