The FALL of Apologetics | Jon McCray on animal suffering

[GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic]

And there it is, you’ve uncovered a few reasons I found Jon’s response to be the 2nd worst apologist response I’ve ever gotten. Kent Hovind will always be first by far, of course. If I remember correctly, Jon also argued that animals can’t physically or emotionally suffer in a way comparable to humans because they’re not humans. No consideration of analogous neurological structures given.

I also found the use of the phrase “the biblical literature” to be... interesting. In academic spaces, people often reference “the literature, ” referring to a body of scholarly work on a given subject. Jon used the phrase in a way that imitated that, but what he meant was literally just “the first few chapters of Genesis.” Genesis is literature, obviously, but that phrase always struck me as a way to dress up the claim, “Drew doesn’t know this Bible story.”

Anyway, I’ve never felt compelled to respond to Jon’s many videos about me, as I’ve always thought, “Wow, if the audience is convinced by that poor line of reasoning (or deceptive editing in some cases), I don’t think I can help them.” It also doesn’t help that Jon makes a habit of making fun of my appearance to the applause of other Christian apologists.

[bobaveccheveux]

Viking Jean-Claude Van Damme strikes back once again!!!

[crasssh]

Also, I'm sure there was the whole deal of a sacrifice to god from two brothers...BEFORE the bringing crops...and the other flesh and fat of an animal. Which one did god like better

[I.Reckon]

"Dinosaurs that God decided to throw a giant rock Woodford.

[laurameszaros]

Great piece, thank you. I'm a vegan because I prefer animals over humans, on the whole, and these apologists simply confirm my misanthropic pessimism.

[for_fox_aches]

Anyone else notice the b roll of the meteor? It's not hitting the yucatan.

[Herschel]

Thanks, GMS, for pointing out that the humans and animals were granted the right to eat meat only AFTER they had just disembarked from the ark. Meaning that when the animal population had been reduced to 2 breeding pairs (Yes, there were 7 pairs of clean animals but some were sacrificed by Noah upon landing), they were given leave to eat each other. I presume that there are no more unicorns because the T-Rex ate them before they bred.
The Flood was 1656 years after the Fall. What is the theological link between these 2 events?
However, there was some animal killing going on long before the Flood. Cain & Abel were Adam & Eve's first children, who made sacrifices to God of their first fruits. Cain was a farmer and gave fruits & veggies and Abel was a shepherd and gave the fat of the lambs he raised. You have to kill sheep to get the fat offering, so long before humans were eating meat, they were killing animals solely to make an offering to God. Maybe they were using the skins, burning the fat and throwing away the meat.
Some apologists have also pointed out that God had to kill animals make the garments to cover the nakedness of Adam & Eve after they ate from the Tree of Knowledge.
Animal death & suffering is baked into to God's plan for Creation. A plan He laid down from start to finish before He made the first sub-atomic particle of the Universe. (Or so I'm told by my religious friends.)

[DiegoMorales-wnjp]

"Look what you made me do"

-abusive partners and god almighty, apparently.

[-ElysianEcho-]

When Cameron is the smartest person in the room, the room is worthless

[Gruso]

Jon is one of the worst of them. I watched his rebuttal to Alex O'Conner on biblical slavery and it was just goalpost moving. Ive never seen such cognitive dissonance before and it was painful

[DoctorBiobrain]

It’s always funny when Christians start talking about their beliefs amongst themselves and realize that they all believe different things. History is full of major disagreements among believers, yet they now like to pretend there’s an obvious consensus among Christians because it comes directly from God himself, then are confused once they get into the details and find out they each have their own god that’s made in their image.

That’s why it’s best if they focus on debating strawmen atheists and not each other.

[Phoenix]

In my fundamentalist Christian days, the "fall" was used like a magical explain-everything answer to any of these types of questions. Apparently, some people eating fruit can modify the DNA of trillions of organisms, as well as slightly altering the laws of physics.

[greatcaesarsghostwriter]

If meat-eating only occurred after the Flood, why was Noah told to bring along seven pairs of clean animals (ones that were permissible to eat) on the Ark?

[IMatchoNation]

"Baby bunny rabbits getting savagely torn apart until death by foxes is part of a perfectly Good omnipotent entity's creation."
- Christians

[PaulTempesta-idwr]

The problem with animal cruelty and the whole food chain of animals eating other animals was what put the nail in the coffin of my faith and any belief in such a cruel god

[corxiiifelinike]

These apologetics are so disingenuous and dishonest. It’s just so gross 🤢

[mycl]

I suspect that if Cameron continues to have such talks with apologists like Jon, he will eventually become an atheist.

[kevinconrad]

You've never seen a chicken in a barnyard, vicious little omnivores, lizards, mice and bugs beware.

[popsbjd]

If Christianity entails Genesis is literal, we can be confident that Christianity is false.

[AbhijeetMishra]

I grew up and completed 36 years on this world thinking these religious texts are meant to be metaphors and not taken literally, and then I wondered into the world of Christian videos on YouTube.