Ur-Markus: The Formation of the First Gospel | Dr. Frank W. Hughes

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𝕏Twitter: @Jacob56723278

[Mercury-Wells]

Thank you for all your hard work, Jacob. You're a bloody legend, mate.

[eximusic]

Great show. What is the impetus for assuming that Matthew and Luke couldn't creatively originate stories? It's the strangest thing, and not practiced (theoretical sources never mentioned by anyone else) in any other area of history. I believe it was just a desire for early scholars to try and compensate for the lack of contemporary or early sources, and create a bridge to some actual history. But those theories say more about the scholars than any actual history.
Why not start with removing all the passages that people like Dennis MacDonald show are inspired by Greek mythology, remove the passages about miracles, remove the passages inspired by Old Testament stories and see what's left? Much less possible historical information to deal with. Possibly nothing.
They didn't have a tradition of oral preservation of stories in 1st century Palestine. Writing was in full swing by then. The description of the disciples didn't include anyone with a literate background to be a scribe. The Christian communities Paul was writing to were already divided and competing with each other over theology.
Robyn Faith Walsh did a great job of showing how German romanticists introduced the idea of oral communities to the study and origin of the gospels, as they did to bolster their own unknown history (German folklore). But everyone still sticks to the oral tradition narrative. There are emotional reasons for that bias me thinks.

[aresaurelian]

The trick here is to consider the Oral Teaching of Jesus as an analoge to greater eastern theologies, and thus more academic and structured as a theological science, than the Greek Narratives about his deeds, which turned into magic and mythological mysticism. With this interpretation the Gospels are mere fairy tales derived from imaginative translations of the original Oral Teachings.

I will keep an eye out for further work by Dr. Frank W. Hughes. Good man.

[kosmicwizard]

Dr. Markus Vinzent and his Patristica crew absolutely smash Markan priority. Marcion priority is the only thing that makes sense.

[dfreemanbooks]

In her book 'The Origins of Early Christian Literature' (pages 155-169), Robyn Faith Walsh expertly refutes the idea proposed here by Hughes that there's good reason to take the author of Luke seriously when he/she says many other gospel-like narratives were floating around at the time of their composition. Walsh surveys a wide range of Greco-Roman literature and demonstrates that references to anonymous sources, claims of eyewitness testimony, and the denigration of competing narratives are easily explained as commonplace rhetorical devices. As she says, "It is within this trajectory that a preface like that to Luke's gospels is intelligible as a rhetorical strategy, and not a concrete account of his writing process.... As a writer, Luke is 'playing the game' of establishing his bona fides, clearly aware of the literary tradition into which he is inserting himself. As such, his preface should not be taken as a reliable description of how information about Jesus or Judea came to him (i.e., via oral tradition)..." There's zero actual material evidence to establish the truthfulness of Luke's claims about eyewitnesses and competing narratives in the preface, while there's ample literary evidence pointing in the direction of rhetorical creativity.

[DrWrapperband]

How do you explain Marcion's Proto - Luke in 144AD? Nothing is First Century.

[davethebrahman]

We know that Jews practiced ‘midrash’, creative retelling of biblical stories. Matthew seems to have done that with Mark. Luke seems to have been impelled to write because he didn’t like much of what he found in Matthew.

[JohnnieWalkerGreen]

Please turn on the Subtitle/Close Caption, doch!

When Luke says there were "many narratives" that doesn't imply that they were in writing or even that Luke had personal knowledge of them. Since he doesn't specifically identify ANY of his sources and relied heavily on Mark and Matthew, Luke's source claims are questionable.

[riley]

I can't wait to see your interview with Dr Elizabeth Schrader-Polczer. I would love to meet her.

[pipurio]

the reality is that whoever invented the first gospel took inspiration from Jesus, son of Nun as the name to give to the protagonist and there is evidence of zealous messianism in the synoptic gospels, especially in Matthew. Jesus never existed. John "the Baptist" existed, he was a revolutionary and was betrayed, arrested and beheaded like all the messiahs/kings who followed one another in the first and second centuries. the last one was Simon bar kokheba

[apollo]

We must always check the sources to establish the authority if the author even in biblical scripture, for we only want to believe the truth, don't we!
Mark was the cousin or nephew of Barnabas, a close friend of Paul's till they had a falling out. So Paul recuited both Luke in 46AD and Mark latter..., since the date of Jesus death is given as 33AD we can conclude neither Paul, Luke or Mark ever meet Jesus and never witnessed any biblical events... But their scriptures do seem to make all the main christian biblical claims. Especially when you factor into Paul fighting with Jesus original real 12 Appostles, and stopping them writing or preaching anything Paul was not preaching. (Galatians 1:8-9 &1:13).
So what you got with any of them is loads of fabricated nothingness!

[liveyourbestlifeguide]

I'm so glad to be Muslim as it would be terrible trying to convince myself that I was on the right path with only a single source of very weak narration. How is it possible that an entire religion was created from this very weak source?

[pipurio]

there is no evidence that Jesus existed in the first century or that the gospels were written in the first century. don't talk bullshit

[francisgruber]

At 5 or even 50 feet, surveying the field is too granular and fragmented so see much. At 500 feet, or 50, 000 feet patterns emerge that no one on the ground level could have manipulated. Substitute years for feet when surveying the New Testament. Since you've dabbled a bit in Sindonology here (and good on you for being somehow available to even that perspective) you may recall that the image is not visible up close, but whatever else it is, it is a clearly discernable image at a distance that no artist up-close could have painted. Believers will say that the Painter is divine, just as they said that the authors were inspired. The scientists do not necessarily disbelieve but they keep poking around linin cloth or ancient codex for natural and cultural contexts. Besides, divinity can infuse natural and cultural contexts as much or little as inscrutable divinity will.

[StorytimeJesus]

'these narratives' are straight from the Old testament Greek Jesuses and son of David Absalom.

[Bluebaggins]

Scholarship nonsense. Battle of Meggido (1500BC ) Thutmose lll is your Moses. Yet if you read the scriptures you will discover how a matrix has been laid over our world and Christ is the escape route. The celestial sphere will show you the dragon, , which is El Shaddai in the hebrew text. Joshua son of Nun, is the egyptian myth of Nun, and the Ankh is an inverted Globus Cruciger... You can believe what you want, but what is called the holy spirit, was present before the big bang, and with the light of consciousness, one can unravel the mystery for yourself.

[koreyoneal]

The first Gospel was Matthew, written about 37 AD and in Hebrew . There's enough evidence to suggest that all of the Gospels were actually written first in Hebrew, so if Mark is the "first", maybe it's just the first that was found but that doesn't prove that it was the first one written

[djelalhassan]

First gospel of Jesus/son of hail Zeus Divus Julius Caesar was written by Mark Anthony .

[marinusvanommeren]

The source of mark is the latin
Civil war of julius caesar.
Nasareth is ravenna.
The lake of calilee.
Is the sea of calliae north italy.
Juilius caesar paid of all the financial debt.
Of all the people of rome, rich or poor.
This became, , , he took all the sins.