Can a Rapier Defeat Mail Armor? - Let's Test and Find Out!

A rapier will slip right through riveted mail, right? Well... not so fast.

It depends on the type of mail (material, weave pattern, ring thickness & diameter, etc), and on the blade shape. Also... technique. The results I got varied depending on how I delivered the thrust.

In other words: If you don't get enough penetration it might be a skill issue. ;)

The riveted mail coif and reproduction swords / dagger I used for testing:

Saxony German rapier by LK Chen

Munich Town Guard sword by LK Chen

Tizona - 17th century Spanish cup-hilt rapier by LK Chen

14th century medieval knight's rondel dagger by Tod Cutler

*** Sources / credits ***

Background music:
"Historic Renaissance music from 1597: If my complaints could passions move” by John Dowland / Of Far Different Nature
CC0 1.0 Universal

Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
Used with artist's permission

*** Other armor tests ***

Arms & Armor 12th Century Spear VS. Riveted Mail and Ballistic Gel

"MAIL" Armor Like You've Never Seen Before!

Testing Post-Apocalyptic Gear: Duct Tape Armor!

Medieval Crossbows vs. Breastplate and Lamellar Armor

Could SOCKS and TOWELS Protect You Against BLADES?

*** Merch ***

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*** Second channel / other social media ***

*** Time stamps ***

00:00 - 00:49 Quick introduction to mail ("chainmail")
00:49 - 01:14 The setup
01:14 - 02:08 16thC rapier - 1st test
02:08 - 03:10 Town Guard sidesword - 1st test
03:10 - 05:07 17thC Cup-hilt rapier - 1st test
05:07 - 06:28 Rondel dagger
06:28 - 06:57 Sidesword - 2nd attempt
06:57 - 08:13 Rapiers - 2nd attempt
08:13 Historical background / discussion

#skallagrim #history #armor #medieval #knights #renaissance #sword #rapier

[Ranstone]

This feels like one of the cornerstone videos of the sword community which should have gotten made 10 years ago, but somehow slipped past the radar.

[tcuegonbear]

You have to love the brutal simplicity of the rondel. Visually they are elegant and and quintessential 'knightly, ' but when it comes to actual use they're basically just beefy/well crafted prison shanks.

Seeing one worn on the hip brings to mind the sounds of Renaissance chamber music, but when one comes out of the sheath Doom music starts playing.

[rpgpuffer]

I'm glad to see that you're conducting these tests on a soft ''humanlike'' target and not on a piece of hardwood like we sometimes see, having a hard unmovable surface to press against would surely change the result.

[Groddon]

I admire your sacrifice of mail and blades in the performing of these tests.

[scottmacgregor]

It was a good idea.
I suspect that a small sword, which apparently tended to be even stiffer and even less focused on cuts than a rapier, would do better.

[youremakingprogress]

I love how the foam has the impression of the rings in it after the thrust didn't go through the mail. Imagine coming home with ring-shaped bruises in a three-inch radius on your chest.

[mburstei]

The rapier vs mail incident happened in a novel. In the 1898 book "When Knighthood Was In Flower", Charles Brandon fights Sir Adam Judson, a duelist nicknamed the "Walking Death" who has supposedly killed 75 men in duels. Charles rapier cuts away part of Adam's clothing, revealing the mail. Being superior in skill, Charles cuts the older man down. The rest of the book deals with his romance with Mary Tudor. The duel itself is set in 1509. I can't find any evidence this duel existed outside of the novel. The framing of the novel is that of it being written as a "historical" account from the diaries of the authors (Edwin Caskoden) ancestors. However "Edwin Caskoden" is a pen name. I think the whole story is fake, unless someone is aware of something else.

[Poohze]

As an old fencing teacher I winced every time your blade bent downwards in a thrust! 😅 And I find it interesting that the best penetration (nods to Matt Easton) seemed to happen when your blade bent upwards, as I was taught and then taught my students.
Oh, and on mail being worn under clothing, Benvenuto Cellini, the 16thC Italian master sculptor and goldsmith, was a duelist and a quarrelsome ratbag and recounts in his diary wearing a mail shirt under his clothing in case he encountered one of his many enemies in the street and had to fight a spontaneous duel.

[runakovacs]

Eastern European life, only 1 dollar but

I want to emphasize this is the type of content I love the most! I quite like the 3 rapiers presented as well. Good display of variety (the early rapier is best)

[TrojanManSCP]

@6:00 "Shiv-alry" is 11/10 level pun. This is why I'm here.

[ezrafaulk]

You just demonstrated *two* things in this video Skall; 1, you demonstrated that just because a weapon isn't *designed* for armored combat doesn't mean it *can't* work for it (I'd imagine a rapier would be excellent at slipping through the gaps in plate armor too); 2, you demonstrated that just because armor *covers* a section of the body *doesn't* mean that that part of the body's protected against the threat it might face, which under the wrong circumstances, can actually be a huge *detriment* .

PS: it's quite an ironic that the guy who wore mail under his clothes to *save* himself from being assassinated ended up being assassinated in *spite* of it.

PPS: Looking at that depiction of it, I think Ringmail is supposed to be an *exaggerated* for of *butted* mail; that's what it looks like to me.

[notevensexy]

The passing-step lunge uses very similar body mechanics to a “dig” punch (AKA a body-shot). You can channel much more power when you strike from the hip, rotating said hip in the same movement. It’s called a “dig” because it’s the same trajectory your hand moves along when it’s on the handle of a shovel that you’re jamming into the ground.

Those longer lunges are great for covering distance and accurately striking soft/vulnerable targets, but they lose a lot of power, particularly at the end of the movement.

Not unlike a jab! Great for closing the range quickly, but unlikely to knock someone out.

[MartinGreywolf]

That "unless you are a cheater" is a pretty big unless - and it doesn't really matter if *you* are the cheater, what matters is if your opponent cheats. And we even have a treatise that talks about this in... some detail. The culprit here is Domingo Luis Godinho, who has entire chapters in his book on dirty tricks, that include, but are not limited to: having a pocket full of sand, taking God's name in vain to poke out your opponent's eyes, stabbing the other guy before the duel actually starts, having a *second* pocket of sand and so on.

He has a section explicitly talking about hidden (therefore most likely chain mail) armor starting at 1-100 and, well, I'll just let him speak:
"All the people that will enter in a fight or quarrel have to take note that they have an obligation to experience the primary blows if the opponent is armored. When it is known, the opponent may test the sword, and if he consents to it, commit a nails-up thrust to the face, where the hidden armor never reaches"

And, what is really, really relevant to this video, he has a section where he talks about how to thrust through the chest armor in 1-105:
"Armed nails-down, if perhaps you have been mistreated by the opponent, it seems good to retreat by stepping, and you risk losing your sword, give a nails-up throwing thrust to the chest. When you give it armed nails-down like this, withdraw the arm toward the rear so that the force takes air, and turning the hand nails-up, throw the sword to the chest. If you want to experience this thrust, throw it at a wall with a practice sword, and you will see the force that it brings, which you will be able to give to the opponent."

So, Godinho thinks you should pull your arm all the way to the back in second and then thrust it all the way forward into quarta.

[kieran]

The hideous nature of what the Rondel dagger would do to a person, with the contrast of 'a more chivalrous age' was *chef's kiss'. Love me a bit of irony!

[bozoforce]

Rondel dagger; a truly SHIVElous implement.

[MrBottlecapBill]

"There's fencing and there's fighting my Prince. You need to learn them both"

[senounatsuru]

I suspect an english tuck or french estoc would also work extremely well. The triangular crossection and exclusive focus on thrusting would likely result in a lot of broken rings.

[luxiam]

So, from what I've gathered, to defeat mail with a rapier you need, overall, a thicker base to add more power in your thrust and thus pierce the mail. Or you could have an extremeley thin blade and try your luck at piercing in-between the rings.
Also, thank you for this video. This subject has been in my head for quite some time now and this video helped me clear some questions I had.

[rorydonaldson]

Awesome video. Love the idea of rapier vs mail, I always wondered if it would just bypass the armor. Testing the rondel was great too, during the video I wondered if it would too

[shinomori]

Very interesting. As a long time RPG nerd I instantly thought about how to translate these results to weapon types. Came to the conclusion that it can be done but it might not be worth it.