Marketing

I talk about marketing, how it can can go well or go poorly, and why you need it more than ever before.

Videos I reference:

[gamepassgamer]

Been waiting for this one! I work in marketing for an indie/AA gaming publisher😅

Because I work in that space, it’s easy for us to play the heck out of the games and present plans to the devs. Nothing is done without the devs involvement, knowledge or sign off on it. From beginning to end.

I just don’t really understand why that’s not a standard. Also, your videos have been so helpful! Really helps me see the heck that devs deal with.

I get the hatred for marketing folks. I’ve worked with folks that fit that category

[veraxiana]

Oh gosh saying you have a love/hate relationship with marketing is so relatable lol, I think it boils down to a mix of me hating how vital it is to the process oftentimes whilst simultaneously absolutely adoring good marketing. Especially when it comes to art & sound design decisions in ads or products, just last week I bought 3 different flavor cans of coffee from this one brand I'd never heard of purely because of how cute the animals on each can were, and yes i rinsed them out to keep them afterwards because i think they're that adorable lol.

[blake_ridarion]

This topic couldn't come at a better time. Just hired a marketing team for the first time, work started this Monday.

[bloodmime]

Marketing for The Outer Worlds, at least from my perspective, was amazing. I also LOVED The Outer Worlds 2 trailer. It was great to hear your experience on it too. Also despite the marketing talking about Fallout, I had NO IDEA it was from (at least a few of) THE GUYS who made Fallout. I thought it was just a marketing gimmick because it was from Obsidian, who worked on Fallout New Vegas, so the 'Fallout' marketing didn't mean a lot to me despite me being a huge Fallout fan. But all the marketing I feel captured the vibe and humour of the game so well, when I bought and played the game I was sold exactly what was promised if not more.

[proydoha]

As a consumer of videogames I mostly receive marketing in a form of trailers. I can say that I there are 3 trailers that imprinted in my head and I will never forget those, I even sometimes return to them to watch them again. I don't know who made them but they did amazing job. Just connected with me on a spiritual level.

1. Announce Trailer - Child of Light [1 : 35] - there are many various trailers for this game but they just don't get it how to hook me. This one does the job. The way music overlaps the narration in this one is simply great.
2. Getting Over It [0 : 43] - trailer ends with a phrase that sold the game for me "I've created this game for a certain kind of person... To hurt them." Immediate purchase. Liked the game too but didn't have a willpower to finish it. I guess it won 🙂
3. Little Inferno - Official Trailer #2 [2 : 03] - It has this segment where it shows the viewer little letters with text "Oooo, it swirls in my head... Like smoke" with a roaring sound of flame mixed into trailer music in background, without any narration. That segment is great, sold the game to me. The game itself is great too. I gifted many copies of it to my close friends.

[Alex_FRD]

Modern Fallout marketing: Explosion explosion explosion 50s song explosion explosion VATS guns Super Mutant Power Armor explosion explosion endgame explosion game logo.

[LiraeNoir]

Tim said something very very important, but without emphasis, so let me nail it down again: marketing is about connecting product or service to those interested in it.
Colloquially (and I do it too) it's used for PR, and advertisement, and market study, and marketing, and everything under the sun.
But there is a reason those are different words, they are not the exact same thing, and sometimes are done by very different people with different goals... opposing goals even from time to time. It's not about just inflating sales numbers at some point, without any regard for anything else. At least good marketing isn't.
But yes, it's all very important. When asked I often comment that making the game is half the job, now the second half is *selling* the game. And no store or platform will do it for you, at best some will help a bit.

[ThomasAndersonPhD]

Yup, man, all the PUBG advertisements showing intense explosive action, but the game is actually 90% waiting and 10% getting shot from someone you can't even see.

[stormveil]

My country (the UK) actually banned gender discrimination in insurance about 10 years ago. Now the insurance companies work extra hard to discriminate by other stuff like the kind of car or your job but at least you can change those. 😅

[christianayalacruz]

I've been binge watching your content, and all the vids are so informative. Keep it up! Funny thing is I had no idea you were behind SO many of my favorite games (I read ALL the liner notes on music albums, but for some reason never did the same with games). I owe you a lot for exercising my imagination for 25 years or so!

Edit: Music world is the same. I've been fortunate enough to have been signed to 3 different music labels (1 Finnish and 2 Dutch - currently signed to a Dutch one) who care more for the music and respecting the artist's vision, and think of marketing as something that happens after all this. But I have many friends who have had the opposite experience (signed to REALLY big labels) where labels ask them to make a short radio friendly song or edit the crap outta some song they really love cause the men in suits prefer it, and many other stuff. Horrible stuff. So I guess go for a medium sized label (or marketing company) who respects your vision but have less pull or sacrifice your vision for more "exposure"

[argylemanni]

Tim, when you're talking about images, "things to look at", you can do this great thing when editing videos where you put the image in the video. It's powerful new technology so you may not be familiar with it yet but it's actually part of the standard install of most video editing software. Cheers!

[fakkel]

Happy i found this channel. What a legend.

[ListerTunes]

Years of watching marketing people come, tell us what they think our game is without playing it or talking to people involved in it, spend incredible sums of money, and then leave for a better opportunity has... soured me on the virtues of Marketing People. Discoverability is absolutely key, and marketing is still the best way to get discovered, but holy cow are so many of them so far up their own butts about everything.

It's also cool to get a $50/day per diem on trips to promote our game, while watching the marketing team get fully reimbursed for $500 dinner and drinking nights. If you're reading this and you're in marketing, please don't be those people.

[argylemanni]

The barrier to entry lower than ever? True, it was much more difficult in the days when people would just send money to your parent's house and you'd send them a disk. Solo games that look/play/sell great? I could list dozens!

[esdths]

As a Master's marketing student, this is incredibly helpful.

[kardrasa]

Great reminder on how important that aspect of game making is. I'll definitelly ask my mom for a loan when launch time comes for my game!

[Nimona-FTW]

I could talk a lot about this, as I worked at studios and publishers. I have both a publishing and a production background. There are definitely issues on both sides; however, I think the hardest is dealing with arrogance. This can be on both sides, but I have more often seen developers dismiss publishing people than the other way around.
Most publishing people respect the work of the developers, while most developers see publishing people as a necessary evil at best.
Every studio should have at least 1 marketing person, as a good marketing/publishing person can really help a studio mature its own understanding of the game they are working on and for whom. I have worked on AAA games than even after 3 years of development people still couldn't clearly articulate what was the game/project about.

[occupationalhazard]

You are right about most Marketing people not even trying to understand a game.
It is hard to understand, but I've never been on their side of the business.

[humphryy]

Tim have you ever thought about or pursued creating physical games / board games? I am not talking about simple games like monopoly, but rather more complex games like RPGs such as Gloomhaven.

Thank you!

[brainpattern]

When I hear "marketing people", I sort of automatically put them in the same category with "HR people". I dunno if that's unfair, but it generally seems to be the case that both are certain types of people that are inherently difficult to work with. If you're in one of those roles (whoever's reading this), please, be the exception! :-)