How Credible Were the Book of Mormon's 8 Witnesses? | LDS Discussions 53 | Ep. 1895

Were the 8 witnesses to Joseph Smith's golden plates actually credible? Or just gullible relatives caught up in his delusion? Shockingly candid statements from witnesses like Hiram Page and John Whitmer seem to contradict and undermine official LDS teachings about their testimonies. What are the implications of the past witnesses on today’s modern church? @NEMOTHEMORMON and @analyzingmormonism join John Dehlin to discuss!

00:06:30 Book of Mormon Prophecy of Eight Witnesses?
00:10:45 “Summary” of the Eight Witnesses
00:14:30 BH Roberts on the Eight Witnesses
00:18:10 The Testimony of the Eight Witnesses
00:20:45 About the Statements
00:26:35 Almost all were Related
00:28:35 Mark Twain
00:29:30 No Original Signatures
00:29:30 Oliver Cowdery was Willing to Deny His Testimony
00:37:45 The Church NEVER taught that anyone denied
00:38:20 What else do we have from the Eight Witnesses?
00:45:15 Messenger and Advocate Mar 1836
00:47:15 Letter from Stephen Burnett to Br. Johnson
00:52:00 Theodore Turley’s Memorandums, Apr 1839
00:53:40 Times and Seasons, Dec 1839
00:54:30 Lucy Mack Smith History
00:58:25 The Ensign of Liberty, Mar 1847
01:01:00 Marvin S. Hill on Hiram Page
01:03:20 Taking Another Look at the Testimonies
01:08:30 Thomas Ford, 1854
01:17:20 Millennial Star, June 1863
01:20:05 Historical Magazine, May 1870
01:23:54 How Did the Plates Look?
01:34:40 Deseret News Aug 1878
01:42:33 Interview with Myron H. Bond, Saints Herald Aug 1878
01:43:10 Samuel’s Testimony to Daniel Tyler, 1832
01:43:47 Jacob’s Testimony according to his son, John, Sep 1888
01:45:02 Closing Thoughts and Summary

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[ZakMakoff]

This is a brilliant team MS, I have enjoyed their collaboration on these perplexing and contradicting issues.
I love the humor, looking forward to more fun episodes!

[zemejal]

Fantastic series, magnificent collaboration! Thank you all, love each of your contributions. Please do keep inviting Nemo the Mormon!

[TEAM__POSEIDN]

It may seem like a small point, but it's very important to constantly keep in mind that the "Witness" statements were prepared FOR the so-called "witnesses". They were not prepared BY the witnesses. They were prepared so that the statements would say exactly what Joseph Smith wanted them to say...and ONLY what Joseph Smith wanted them to say. There is no indication that any of the witnesses (other than Oliver Cowdery, who drafted the statements for Joseph) were even consulted before the statements were presented to them for their endorsement and acceptance. The primary beneficiary of the statements was...drum roll...Joseph Smith, since he is the one whose credibility needed to be bolstered. And of course all of the participants in this whole charade were men who were heavily invested in Joseph Smith's book project and were hoping the book would sell. They may as well have been writing testimonials for the founder of an MLM business that they were all invested in.

[sandaroocompilations]

Congratulations on your engagement Julia!

[mr.hermit]

This Series are my Favorite. Always Well Done.👍

[PARebecca]

I enjoy these discussions and want to say thank you for having them. They help believers deconstruct from their nonsense beliefs..

[sandaroocompilations]

The 3 witnesses episode was incredible. I’m excited for this one!

[mikegrogitsky]

An episode on the 3 nephites would be interesting. I wonder if there is even enough to go on to make a full episode 🤔

[jake]

Nemo. Exactly how I feel. There is no way I take that bs seriously about plates and god

[purpleprose]

The irony to me is that books as we know them are a relatively new invention. I was watching an educational podcast on the library of Alexandria which existed after the book of Mormon peoples left Jerusalem was basically a library of scrolls. I think calling things a book would probably be in and of itself anachronistic, but I could be wrong.

[whitesalamander]

This is highly entertaining when wondering what pretzel logic the Mormon apologists will employ to explain Joe Smith’s scam. 🤣

[SynThenergy]

The concept is that the signed statement and other testimonies are contradictory. We're hearing the harmonized account of motivated believers "sticking to their story" but each individual experience is either extremely vague or suspiciously specific, mixed with spiritual language that can create plausible deniability

[bodytrainercrane]

The funniest part of that Mark Twain quote is the part about the Whitmer family. Mark Twain was a genius amongst fools.

[Pay-It_Forward]

1:40:10 Yep. let me get you some wine, magic mushrooms & Ergot grain fungi, you'll get your vision, don't worry..

[reannastar]

I just googled it and gold leaf paint has existed since ancient Greece... so maybe he painted paper?

[Captainmoroni]

Great episode!! This is a dream team!! Julia, John, Mike & Nemo!!! 😮‍💨💪🏼🤌🏼✨🔥🤟🏼🎊🙏🏻🧖🏼‍♂️

[Chris-bdse]

Haha! Nemo you walked into a land mine talking to Americans about their Constitution!! I’m Canadian and got your joke! 😂

[andrewfredrickson]

My thoughts with the “seeing by faith” is like the emperor’s outfit that idiots cannot see so he walks around not dressed because nobody wanted say they didn’t see 😂

[TheSaintelias]

The ganging up on NEMO, in this video, is hilarious. I love the queens favorite subject.

[debbybates]

As a newer listener to Mormon stories I am shocked that intelligent people I value have been duped into believing in and following a scam artist, Joseph Smith! These faithful souls are from many past generations of followers and as I have learned the faithful obey. As a non-LDS listener I don't know the stories or have past baggage to get through as I listen and form conclusions from your guests and their knowledge and experiences. Thank you.