Employers Demand Payment When Employees Leave

For repayment of "training" costs.

[troystallard]

My son took a position with a defense contractor, and needed a particular certification. They paid for the training and testing, on the understanding he would repay them if he didn't work for at least a year after receiving it. When he changed jobs after more than a year, they withheld the full amount from his last check anyway. His boss told him, "we don't start the clock until we pay for the training, and we didn't pay until several months after you took it." When my son discussed it with an HR guy the next day, he showed him the number of a National Labor Board rep saved on his phone, and invited him to call her and discuss it. They cut him a check in a matter of hours...

[AdamSternberg]

I am a photographer who shoots corporate events. I recently was working a large conference for a Fortune 500 restaurant chain. Their Vice President gave the keynote presentation and a hot topic was how "Today's employees are lazy and don't want to work". He basically called this mentality complete nonsense. He said, "It's not that people don't want to work, it's that they don't want to work FOR YOU!" He really wanted to reinforce that many of their stores had absolutely no problem with employee retention, so if you owned a store that did, maybe it's you and not them.

[justinfriedman]

"Employers are looking for ways to keep their workers from quitting without raising wages or improving working conditions."

That really sums up the root of the issue well.

[LoneWulff]

My mother worked for the same company (Toys R Us) for over 15 years. Their "training" was minimal at best. After 15 years she was terminated for a mistake made by her manager yet she was thrown under the bus for. After few months later she received a letter claiming she owed them over $700 to reimburse them for training (after 15 years mind you) or they would sue. Needless to say we told them to go stick it.

[mariehammond]

My daughter was awarded a "full scholarship" for EMT training from an ambulance company who was contacted with her high school and had agreed to employ her while she's in school on their dime. It required a 2 year commitment. They didn't want to give us the contract, so we had to ask multiple times. We finally got 2 days before she was to start. The contact was a loan agreement complete with interest and late payment fees. They were only paying half, and forgiving a fraction of the other half for each month that she stayed. It was contingent on her employment with them and they could fire her for no reason at any time, then demand full payment, plus interest, atty fees, etc. And they never gave us the amount. We declined, she got her Paramedic Cert on her own while working at a coffee shop and has no student debt because it was mostly covered by real scholarships.

[Frylock]

I took a promotion at a job I had. Once I accepted and was ready to start my new training which was done by a 3rd party school, I was asked to sign the agreement that I was not told about, and would require repayment if I left within 2 years. I signed it but our HR director didn't ask for it back after they dropped it off to me. I filed it away (at home 😊) just to be safe. 18 months later I got a new job. They demanded the repayment but knowing nothing was signed, at least in their records, I just asked them for a copy of what I signed. Oddly, they never asked me again.

[wgfeujr]

"People are always worried that they'll invest money in training people and then the people will leave. I'd be more worried if I didn't train people and they stayed!" -paraphrased from J.C. Maxwell

[gregorysiegel]

When my company paid me to move across the country I had to sign a contract that if I didn’t stay for 1 year after the move I would have to pay all the moving costs they covered for me back. But as you said, they told me, I had a sit down with HR and was able to go over the contract BEFORE they would let me sign the offer letter

[ArtemisKitty]

It gets even worse : a mate of mine in the USA applied for a job, was hired, went to the FIRST session... and was promptly told he and about 7 others were mistakenly employed due to an error - basically they had 2 people not communicating about the hiring process, and ended up, whether intentionally or not, hiring more than they needed.

They dismissed that group, and my mate thought that was it... Just a waste of their time.

The really nasty bit? Every one of those people was then hit with a $5000USD charge for training... Even though they never even made it to the first training class, only the initial first day introductory meeting.

They are suing now, but... Or rather, I should say... They are appealing the judgement. They were all stuck with the charge by the first judge.
This seems kind of insane to me, as a normal person, who might look for a job...

[sneakyquick]

I left a job one time and turned in my notice. I had three weeks of vacation days I never used because I was asked to work through the summer on a project. I asked to be paid for those like any good company would. The owner refused. I told him we'll consider that my three week notice and I walked out. I never even logged off of my computer or checked in any of the code I was working on.

[danielcrotty]

At one of my first job interviews I was told I didn’t have enough work experience, and I said if you hire me I’ll gain work experience. They then told me if they hired me and I had work experience I’d leave and work somewhere else! Must have been a really horrible place to work.

[sheilawest]

I WAS RECENTLY TOLD TO SIGN SUCH AN AGREEMENT TO THE TUNE OF $3, 000! AND I REFUSED! ... As backstory .... I was a CDL holder many years ago during college in Pennsylvania. I drove public school bus as my college student job. I maintained the license literally for decades simply because I I knew how valuable it was, even though I never drove professionally again. But then I lost the license in 2013 when they changed the rules on how to renew, and I never knew about the rule change because I was not working for a professional driving company where I would have had a dispatcher who would have informed all of his or her drivers about the rule change. So, in total ignorance, I walked into the RMV to renew my license just 3 days before my birthday. And they said I had to have a physical exam including an eye exam every time I renewed. I had no time to get such an exam, so I had to surrender the CDL om the spot and downgrade to a regular driver's license. I checked into what it would take to get it back: an absolute minimum of $3, 000 (more like $6, 000) out of my own pocket, and all that classroom time, and I also needed to get my hands on an actual bus. No thanks. I just shrugged and said "Oh, well, I guess I will never get a CDL ever again."

And then last year, in 2021, the whole nation was screaming for school bus drivers, and school bus companies everywhere were advertising that they would pay all new-hires to be trained, they would provide all of the classroom training, and provide the road training in a real school bus, and then pay for the exam at the RMV, pay for the road test at the RMV, and also pay for the license itself. I decided to give it a whirl.

I applied and they said they would hire me with no problem.

So a week later I showed up for my first day of training. They had me sign all the usual new employee forms including an I-9 and W-9, etc. And then ... they whipped out a stand-alone document which was a promissory note to be signed my me. It was called a "Tuition Reimbursement Agreement." It said I was obligated to work for one full year for this school bus company, and that I was not to quit prior to one full year. If I did, I was obligated to reimburse the company $3, 000 for the cost of training. It also had a very important clause which said if I tried to legally contest that agreement, then I was further obligated to pay all of the attorneys fees of the bus company during the course of my efforts to contest it.

I said "But what if I work for 11 months and 22 days, and thus fall short of the one-full- year by a mere week? What if I break my hip and need to take two months sick leave? There are no provisions in this agreement that protect me in such exceptional events."

I was assured that the company would pro-rate the time I worked, so if I left after 6 months, they would only charge me $1, 500 and not the full $3, 000.

"Then, " I pressed further, "why doesn't the document mention anything about it being pro-rated? You're giving me a verbal assurance that it will be pro-rated, but I would much prefer that statement in writing, right here on the document. And furthermore, what is the definition of 'a full year?' Is that a full school year from September to June? Because this is October, and I am starting late in the school year. Is it a full 12 months from October to October? Maybe 'a full year' is in the employee handbook, where maybe the very phrase 'school year' gets clarified. Once, again, this document is alarmingly vague. There is nothing in this document that protects me."

After barely 90 seconds of my protesting the wording of the document, the supervisor fired me on the spot and order me to get out. So I laughed, and left.

So I still don't have a CDL. Lol!

Now I personally believe that the $3, 000 is quite fair. But the wording of the document was not. The document had all of the protections skewed in favor of the employer, and zero protections at all were skewed in my favor. And while I'm sure it's a nice company to work for, and I'm sure they would have pro-rated me had I left after 6 months, the real fear I hold is that if that company ever (hypothetically speaking) got sold before my "one year" of employment was up, the (hypothetical) new owners of the company could take advantage of the vague wording of the document to totally screw me over. Because they can.

I believe my concerns were warranted. I have no regrets for raising those concerns.

And, Steve Lehto, I still have that "Tuition Reimbursement Agreement" if you wanna see it.

[thisbushnell]

Our teacher told us of how she went to a company which was advertising for a job. To begin the process, the interviewer informed her there would be several days of testing to see if she was capable of filling the position. She firmly insisted she be introduced to the current holder of the position, since she did not yet know if she would _want_ the position, and there was no point in spending days on testing if she was not interested in taking the job. (this was during the Great Depression) Wise woman.

[ScottJPowers]

this happened to me. after high school, I got a job at a goodwill store but I couldn't continue after a week because I couldn't get a photo ID for myself, so I had to leave. when I got my paycheck for the time I worked it read negative 25 cents. They took all of my pay because they charged me for "training" which was just me watching a video for a couple hours that explained my job, which they made me watch.

[spacecaptain]

This sounds like the sort of thing that happens in human trafficking jobs. Force people into worse and worse situations...

[dorcsssc]

11:00 You're spot-on about the time frame: employers almost universally spring these conditions on you after an offer is made, or after they've made sure you've declined all other offers. It's usually buried inside all the "on-boarding" paperwork, carefully tucked in between workplace-violence stuff, discrimination & disability laws, company motherhood ethics statements, etc, etc.

[joew]

I had an employer who demanded I reimburse *them* for my travel expenses retroactively, if they believed there was a cheaper option that I hadn't taken. According to policy, we were required to take the cheapest flights and hotels, at all times. If their travel person retroactively found flights or hotels that were cheaper, they'd actually come asking for cash. This of course is broken in a number of ways, including that it's not how hotel and airline pricing works. Those prices can fluctuate on a minute to minute basis. It also ends up being a double taxation situation, because they were asking me to reimburse my own business expenses from after-tax income. And it's probably illegal as well.

I was a 100% travel employee, so working there could potentially get very expensive.

[wickedbird]

My husband worked for a company that briefly stated company policies and procedures WITH the job application. Some people would not even fill out the application because they did not want to follow those policies. Saved everyone time, money and trouble by being honest up front. Communication is the key.

[Lobotomy]

Only time I ran into something similar, was as I started plumbing and was still merely a laborer, the company( out of state contractor) offered to send me to school, IN THEIR STATE, to get my journeymans license. I wasn't required to pay for the school, but had to have signed a contract saying I will work for them while in school, and for 2 years after I get my license. It was a good deal, but have to drive out of state after work on Thursday(4 days work week, 10nhour days) to make school each Friday. I decided that 4 years of our of state travel wasn't for me and got hired locally and entered apprentice program here. Boss there would take out funds paying each semester out of your pay, but once he got grades at end of semester and you passed, he'd reimburse you!

[erin]

Years ago my part time employers tried to screw my out of a weeks work when I quit. They claimed it was for training purposes and yet no one trained me. I was put on the job day hired, and never saw a soul at the remote job site. My training was obtained by me under FCC licensing before I was ever employed. I took the case to the New Jersey Labor Relations Board. I won my case! Do not lie down over employer intimidation or cooperation.