DISGUSTING Things From My Theology Degree

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Having just finished my first year studying philosophy and theology at Oxford University, I decided to compile some of the ideas of two key thinkers from the syllabus that I find troubling.

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Alex O'Connor
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[CosmicSkeptic]

This video was voted for by my supporters on Patreon, who also had early access to this video.

[goldrake]

When you want to prove your point so much that you get a degree in what you criticize the most

[ViableBurrito]

Atheists often get criticized for not taking the deep theological positions of theists seriously. But when you read this stuff as an outsider, it really does sound like Tolkien deciding why one wizard is more powerful than another and why you have to take a boat to get to Valinor

[GreyGreenGod]

As a kid I did want to die because I knew that if you die as a child you’ll automatically go to heaven.

[JackMott]

I took a couple of theology courses in college. IIRC all of my professors happened to be religious, but one of them said as he was getting his theology degree he asked a lot of his professors if getting their theology degree strengthened or weakened their faith. It was about a 50/50 split according to him!

[mattfoley]

What I learned from theology:
1. Pick the conclusion you want.
2. Build your argument around that.
The end.

[formicapple]

Well done for getting to Oxford. It’s no mean feat. The workload is crushing to many but well worth the effort. Stay strong. Wish you success.

[ThatCringeCalledIggleboz]

The ad that played before this video was a guy with a whiteboard yelling at me not to go to college.

Just thought you'd ought to know.

[noeldown]

"If you disagree with somebody you ought to be able to state their case better than they can, and at that point you've earned the right to disagree with them. Otherwise you should just stay quiet." (Charlie Munger). Alex is doing an awesome job here.

[HolyKoolaid]

Fun History Fact: During the 4th century, Athanasius competed in three consecutive Olympic games and took the Gold medal every time. For... mental gymnastics!

[THATGuy]

"I have nothing but respect for the way theology tortures my University."
That's what I first heard when you said that you respect how it is TAUGHT IN your University. I was briefly confused.

[KatherineGregorySoprano]

I'm a Theology student at Cambridge and literally just studied original sin. Your treatment of these ideas is really insightful!

[PaulMcMinotaur]

I think the concept of Original Sin is attractive because it speaks to that part of man which realizes that we can never fully live up to our ideals.

[LoisClinton]

Brilliant video, I think it's essential to learn about the things you would generally argue against. Like you've previously mentioned about admitting your own biases so that you can compensate for them.

[jeff__w]

Regarding “Original Sin”:

In the late 17th century, Puritan kids in New England were reading Benjamin's Harris’ 1690 _New England Primer_ which taught “In Adam’s fall, We sinned all.”

Meanwhile in China the kids were reading the Confucian-based 三字經 _Three Character Classic_ (dating from the 13th century):

人之初 People at birth,
性本善 Are naturally good.
性相近 Their natures are similar,
習相遠 Their habits make them
different.

[artsyrant]

Dude : you don't know any of these! you're not a scholar, how can you say that!
Alex : *actually gets a major in theology*

[lukeleone]

Hi Alex, thank you for your video and your excellent interviews. I think that there are some issues with your critiques of Athanasius. I believe the problem lies in looking at early eastern church figures like Athanasius through much later western theological debates (fact vs myth, inherited guilt, the nature of death, Hell). So here are a couple of points.

1) Athanasius very likely didn't believe in the literal factuality of the garden story. On the Incarnation is the second half of a 2 part work. In the first half, Contra Gentiles, he refers to the garden story as a myth (or words to that effect. I can't recall at the moment, but I remember being surprised when I read it.) And this wasn't really an issue for the early fathers. It is now since people started taking the Bible as a science textbook, but very few people read that way in the early church. Some took it literally. Most of the big names didn't though, like Origen, Irenaeus, Gregory of Nyssa, and Basil of Caesurea. Christians and Pagans alike were trained to read allegorically, which is very foreign to our modern approach to texts. Orgien, for example, sees Scripture as having layers. Sometimes there is a literal layer, sometimes not. But we should always read spiritually with a Christocentric approach.

2) Athanasius didn't believe in original sin in the way you describe it. The prevailing metaphor for sin in the early church and still in the eastern church is that of inherited disease, not inherited legal culpability for Adam's sin. We are born into a fallen world with a predisposition to sin, but we are only responsible once we actually sin. We are not guilty for people's sins that preceded us. Augustine invented that doctrine in the 400s because of a mistranslation of Romans 5 from Greek into Latin (Augustine never learned Greek). But in the eastern church it never was taught because they could read the original Greek. And when other theologians heard about it they were shocked and distured by its break with traditional doctrine.

3) I think Athanasius uses legal metaphors to describe God's penalty of death, but I think he thinks of it in a more organic way. Death is not an arbitrarily decided legal punishment by God. God in his nature is Life, Being, Joy, Love, etc... To choose to turn away from God is thus to approach death and suffering. There is a natural, intrinsic order to the world. It's not ad hoc.

4) Surprisingly, Athanasius very possibly didn't believe in an eternal Hell. While there certainly are places where he describes punishment for the wicked, there are numerous places were he says that all humanity will be ultimately saved. Thus (though it is debateable) his view is God's use of punishment is temporal, remedial, and redemptive. And again, for the early theologians, this wasn't an issue like it was to become later. The scholar Illaria Ramelli documents how numerous early church figures were explicitly or implicitly universalist. For example, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Athanasius, St. Anthony, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory Nazianzus, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, and others. Origen was explicitly a universalist, and Athanasius was a big fan of Origen.

5) The reason Athanasius comments about Christians being eager for death is because of how contrary it is to our human nature. It is a given that we all fear death. We flee it, ignore it, and bemoan it. We are born Death's slaves. But, if Christ rose from the dead, we can have a confident hope that we also will rise. Athanasius is making a startlingly anthropological observation. Christians don't fear death anymore, and this is really really weird. His explanation is that this only makes sense because of the Resurrection and the good news that spread after it.

[AuGrrr]

god is the antagonist and the protagonist of the story so he makes a problem and fixes it and wants praise for fixing the shit that he broke in the first place.

[NeoRipshaft]

Everyone poops.
Everyone sins.
Sins = poops.
- My Theology PhD

[consideringchristianity]

As a Christian, Alex is by far my favourite Religious critic. Him actually being familiar with Theology makes his criticism all the more potent and worth considering.