How to Scale your Startup with Growth Levers: Matt Lerner

In this episode of Deep Dive, I'm thrilled to interview Matt Lerner, the founder of SYSTM and author of "Growth Levers." Matt shares his wisdom on helping startups uncover their big growth levers, the challenges of decision-making and the pitfalls of focusing only on revenue.
We also explore growth strategies like viral and authentic videos and the necessity of engaging and retaining viewers through positive feedback loops.
This episode is packed with practical tips and strategies. I hope you find listening to it as enjoyable as I found recording it 🙂

00:00 Uncovering Growth Levers
12:45 Aligning Organisational Pieces for Growth
28:43 Deciding Which Ideas to Pursue
39:17 The Importance of Fresh Content
46:15 Measuring Monthly Returning Viewers and Conversion Rates
55:26 Monetisation Strategies: Sponsorships, Affiliates, and Own Products
01:19:07 Simplifying and Consolidating for Focus
01:24:13 Leveraging Podcast Episodes for YouTube Videos
01:32:23 Reevaluating the Business Model
02:01:01 De-risking the Business
02:06:26 Unlocking Bottlenecks
02:12:43 Doing Fewer Things and Making More Mistakes
02:21:30 Building a Portfolio of Small Businesses
02:28:22 The Importance of Clear Hypotheses and Documentation

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📄SHOW NOTES & TRANSCRIPT

🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST

Deep Dive is the podcast that delves into the minds of entrepreneurs, creators and other inspiring people to uncover the philosophies, strategies and tools that help us live happier, healthier and more productive lives.

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PS: Some of the links in this description are affiliate links that I get a kickback from 😜

[pat_makes_stuff]

I was listening to this on Apple Podcasts but came here specifically to say this: whatever you do keep recording these podcasts! And be as random as you like but they are so valuable. Also I became a subscriber by watching productivity videos. And then I applied a lot of the knowledge. Which led to one of the biggest shifts in my work in my life

[cobbled]

These long-form discussions where you openly discuss and question your own business on its journey are the most interesting content you make. This was excellent :)

[RyanMcLeanau]

I ONLY watch your podcasts and rarely if ever watch your main channel. I’m a loyal fan because of these long rambling podcasts where you talk about your own business and life. I find them very useful and easy to listen to.
I don’t like the shorter videos that much

[saagarchandiramani]

As a long time but largely soft listener/watcher, i think the final evolution of my engagement with your content in my customer journey has to do with your podcast. You ask phenomenal questions and are a joy to listen to.

[mollycloverblog]

Ali, I hope this message reaches you, I’ve listened/ watched until the end (I started on the pod but wanted to see what he was mapping out on the screen). I started watching your productivity videos about 4 years ago and since then I always find myself coming back to your videos because I trust you and I love your opinions on stuff. But mostly I value your perspective. I changed my outlook on being a maths teacher and have started a happiness/ productivity/ mindset blog on the side and frankly you got the ball rolling for me. I hadn’t questioned my life path before. I don’t have the money to pay for your courses. But I bought your book and I love your work. Thank you for doing what you’re doing.
- a loyalist.

[theartofnemo]

As someone who is currently trying to grow a business, this was incredibly insightful. Got the book 10 minutes in, thanks for having all these interesting podcasts Ali!

[BrandonShi]

This has to be one of the most interesting conversations on the internet!

Matt and Ali come from entirely different business backgrounds, ones a service-based creator business, another is funding early stage startups. 20:50

I can see the instant stumble when Ali stumbled on the “who’s your ideal customer” question. Something that all founders think of, but as a creator you don’t.

As a creator-founder myself, this is such an interesting convo!!

[XcellwithNitin]

This is one of the best episodes that you have done Ali .. Being on the line is not easy but you faced it well and Mathew was a true artisan .. Well done .. This gives me a lot of ideas to implement in my own startup .. Keep them coming .. The knowledge and actions should keep happening .. Best of luck for raising your Monthly viewership -> North Star

[asken]

This conversation is smart, but I think it is also dangerous. I see the conversation as based on some misunderstood premises.

1) Ali isn’t doing 15 things. Instagram, podcast, youtube, etc. are the same = content creation. And that is the entire business. The content is the marketing, sales, and product(=courses + book). Sure, maybe you could argue that he is doing e.g. 2 things, book and courses, but definitely not 15 things.

2) The conversation is based on a “startup hyper growth” method, and Ali’s business isn’t a startup. That is why Ali is struggling in the conversation to reduce “the 15 things” to “1 thing”. And Ali is right, YouTube could ban him tomorrow and it would all be gone - unless he didn’t also do content on other platforms. A real business would consider it a huge risk to be 100% reliant on others platform.

3) A “startup hyper growth” method is a false “truth”. This type of thinking about growth is biased towards the startups that succeed, but most fails! Therefore, this type of thinking leads most startups into failure, which doesn’t sound like a concept of truth in my ears. The world is more complicated than so.…

4) It is mentioned that Ali’s company is doing 5million usd with 22 employees, which is an average turnover of 230.000 usd/employee. That is very good, and it is not a complex organisation. The entire talk about removing complexity in this organisation seems like a false problem. Most businesses would take this complexity level as the end-goal of simplicity.

5) The funnel is complex, and Ali’s audience is getting more diversified, which is a plus. I definitely seem him moving up the ladder in terms of his appeal to an audience with a higher willingness to pay.

6) I listen to the podcast - and listened to this one for +2hours during yesterday and today while commuting. I don’t watch the youtube videos really. I bought the book, and I love it. It is novel. Therefore I am going to re-read it. It is way better than most similar american’ised books. It is has real evergreen value. This book + the podcast is building Ali so much goodwill that it seems which he doesn’t seem to realize in this talk. Alex Hormozi actually talks about this, and how building an audience is untapped business revenue which you can convert later on - when you need it. The advantage here is that you can accumulate this taxfree - you are not milking it today for pennies (which you would have to pay taxes on today), but instead you accumulate/save it up to realize its potential later on. As a follower, I can confirm that this is true. I dont’ care about the youtube academy, and wouldn’t care about the productivity lab, but someday you will make another book, or maybe another thing, and I would be all ears.

I liked the talk, and definitely had me thinking, but please don’t take the analysis in the talk to seriously;-) And yes, I searched for the video to add this comment, because I had to after listening to the podcast.

[A.Montgomery]

Intuitively, I would go for the metaphysical and conduct a survey on what added value your content offers to your customers. For example, what are three points that motivate you to consume my content, and what would you wish for? As a non-ideal customer who tends to buy few books on productivity and would not take any courses, I watch your videos because they are positive, reminding me to take action every time (it never gets boring or old!). Now, I watch your videos even more because A) you have very pleasant background music, B) you have become much more human and radiate a pleasant warmth, and I see that people around you are important to you and that you don't fake it, and C) you invite interesting people like Matt Lerner and especially the Cultural Tutor Sheehan.

[RakeshLahoti]

This episode was awesome! Please make more episodes where you’re learning how to run your business from other experts. Watching Ali learn in real time is so good

[LizaPierceMauiHawaii]

Mahalo Ali and Team and guest Matt - this is a great podcast. I watch from the beginning to end. Learned a lot just by listening to your discussion. Thank you

[BigThreeChiu]

Thank you for Ali and team. We learned so much from your videos, all the little systemizing hacks and journaling prompts etc, all of it creates ripple effect and impact on lives. So just grateful for you for being transparent and sharing the up and downs of the journey.

[xqfkmrf]

One thing I think that you’re not valuing as much as you should is…we love your videos, how you interview and pull such valuable information from your guests or your solo thoughts. I think your products are a distraction for you. People love you on YouTube. Focus on YouTube and books. You will become so huge. That is what I say as a customer/consumer of yours. Don’t fight being on Youtube. It is where you live and have seen your amazing success so far. Focus on that. ❤️

[_andrewpeacock]

One of the biggest reasons I watch your channel(s) is for the one-off insights you provide from YOUR EXPERIENCES. you’re a lifestyle business - I see a plethora of low-lift content by you just showing (transparently) how you utilize the skills and tools you teach us YOURSELF to work with the team, build the products, etc.

Those are the type of behind-closed-door conversations and thought processes that don’t often get seen in the world…and the ones that really move the needle :)

You gave us the fishing and taught us how to fish - now show us how and why you fish.❤

[gisodriso]

Came here from the podcast to leave a comment. This format and specifically this episode rocks. Been a fan for many years ali, keep it up

[DrBeast-kybd]

Deep dive is finally back to long form
I really enjoy the deep dive like these and it will long stay and never be forgotten
when Ali enjoy it our Ali fans are happy too
Ali I wish you just do what you want and be happy with joy ☀️

[JasonLucas]

Are we not gonna talk about how Ali used a lofi version of a Christmas song in this video? 🤣 Silent Night, FTW

[justfizzbuzz]

I think this is the best podcast ep here ever. Really helped me map out a north star metric not just in my business but in my life as well

[ShawnManaher]

Thank you so much for this video! I really loved the process and struggle you were willing to go through. It reminded me a lot of how I think and how not everything is as black and white as I think it will all result in. Wishing you all the best success in growing further Ali!