Do You Really Need A Red Dot?

Attitude. Skills. Plan.

[gowilsoncombat]

Thanks for commenting on Ken's video. Glad to hear your opinion too!

[CH-tgzq]

I wear contact lenses for distance. I wear reading glasses for viewing close objects. With iron sights, if I am not wearing reading glasses, I can see the target well but not my iron sights. If I am wearing my reading glasses, I can see my iron sights well but the target is fuzzy. These problems are completely eliminated with my red dot. I shoot MUCH better with the dot, consistently hitting steel targets at up to 40-50 yards and very accurately at closer distances. For me, the red dot has been a game-changer.

[taylorlibby]

ALWAYS good to see a respectful exchange of views amongst the firearms community. We're a collection of very independent minded folks and the rhetoric and reactions can needlessly get a bit outta hand at times.

[JoMamasHouse]

I think the main takeaway, choose the platform that fits your needs best. But optics are no fad. Irons will never go away, but optics will only grow in popularity.

[raifcluster]

Back in the early 70's Jeff Cooper was the "Moses" of the defensive shooting world. Ken came on the scene a few years later as an enthusiastic "Joshua" and blew us all away with his skill and knowledge. He's been a hero and mentor to the shooting world since. I watched his video on red dots, and was reminded that although his knowledge surpasses most of us, he is not infallible. He will most likely be proven wrong about red dots being a "fad", just on the fact that aging eyesight happens. I can't seem to update my eyeglass prescriptions fast enough these days, and the red dot was to me a "cure all". I can find that dot, where it was taking longer for my old eyes to find that front sight. You younger guys might find red dots "easier", but I find them to be life-savers when it comes to hitting accurately. (IMHO)

[brianjuergensmeyer]

The biggest recommendation for a dot is age. I'm old enough that I need a hi-vis front sight just to be able to see it at arms length. Since the dot is effectively focused at infinity, I have no problem putting the dot on the target and keeping them both easily in focus.

If you're old enough for reading glasses, you should seriously consider a dot. I still shoot with my hi-vis irons from time to time so as not to lose the skill, but I'm better and faster with my Holosun.

[paulgrogan]

John, best tip I've received yet. 40 years over irons, jumped the fence a month ago. "Focus on target, let the dot go there and press"👏🤝👍

[ArpRLB]

Excellent comments, John! My perspective:

I started on irons, but transitioned to the dot. I really prefer it for a few reasons:
- Focus: as a person ages, the three focal planes of irons becomes challenging. Even focusing on the front sight can require the tell-tale tilt of the head to get it in focus. With a dot, look at your target, then overlay the dot. One focal plane.

- Technique Feedback: when live-firing, the dot bounce can give you a lot of feedback on grip and technique. I use a Mantis X, which gives me an incredible amount of feedback, but seeing what happens to the dot tells me immediately anything wrong.

- Target definition: A dot seldom obscures the target (unless you have it set up as a reticle rather than a dot). Properly-aimed irons partially obscure by definition.

The downside:
- It takes practice to refine the draw so that you see the dot (nearly) every time.
- It takes practice to manage the recoil so that the dot stays in the window during the recoil, so that follow-up shot is much faster.

But are those REALLY downsides? I don't think so. I think it's more accurate to say that an optic will reveal weaknesses in technique. It sure did for me.

I can shoot irons, but my go-to will be optics for everything I shoot.

And as far as a fad: that's what they said about radio, TV, cell phones....

[InGratitudeIam]

Within ten yards, using the profile of the slide can be an extremely fast and accurate sighting system. This technique was developed by Jim Cirillo in actual gunfights and taught extensively to civilians and LE alike. The same can be said of other close-range techniques he developed under fire.

[fficer]

Shoot for me, I was an irons guy but one day a buddy of mine had a red dot and gave me 2 mags to run it. It was an eye opener no pun intended. I definitely believe it is a vast improvement over irons. The fundamentals are the same but get down faster. The pros I believe fat out way the cons, and for me I would be using backup irons. This is no fad, it is here to stay.

[benaiahw]

Great response John. Wish our debates in every community was as respectful, informed, and helpful to all involved. I’ve never met Mr. Hackathorn but have several training DVDs of his and have benefited tremendously from his teachings.

I’m gun Amish but slowly losing my eyesight and leaning more towards getting optics on my XD-40. All that to say, if you’re looking for a new home for that unloved hellcat, I’m your man. 😁 Soli Deo Gloria!

[dontmesswiththeclown]

I am no stranger to your channels and have heard you talk about the benefits of having an optic on a pistol numerous times. I decided to give it a try and purchased one. I struggled with it at first but stuck with it. The main issue I had was how I initially had the optic set up. Once I learned how to properly set one up and zero it in (not right on top of the cowitness) it became obvious right away that the optic was a game changer. I shoot at an outdoor range with stations that start at 10 yards and go out to 50. I am happy with how I shoot with the optic at all distances. I am glad that you have done multiple videos on this subject and gave me a reason to stick with it!

[thomasarmstrong]

Regarding battery-change schedules: A practice I started when I was learning to use cameras effectively (circa 1990) was to change batteries on all my camera bodies on my birthday. The same practice has served me well on lots of other gizmos that use specialty batteries, and I think it would work well on electronic optics (if the batteries last that long).

[whiterabit]

Does it really take 20mins to answer this question?

[chrisf]

I watched the live stream and thought Ken was really reasonable and made some good points we don't like to think about. I think it's fair to say that the red dot for handguns has been around for decades and is not going away, but how good it is for less thoroughly trained and committed people is more what Ken was questioning. I like this exchange of ideas we're seeing around this though and look forward to more on it.

[steveneldred]

I worked on the over night shift for 27 years; then I moved to the day shift. I had people ask me how long it took me adjust to such an extreme change in my daily cycle. I told them it took about 3 minutes. I purchased my first two handguns in 1971. I have always hunted small game and whitetail deer with a handgun and have been very successful. About 10 years ago when I got a CPL I started shooting a lot more. Since I started watching ASP, I’m shooting more than ever (and using most of their sponsors). After shooting iron sights for over 50 years, I just switched to optic per-ASP recommendations. Once again, it took me about 3 minutes to adjust to the change; I’ve experienced notable improvement. I love em!

[theChestnutMtnTinman]

I was shooting IPSC in the 90-91 when red dots were first being put on race guns. There weren’t even mounts and we were making the out of aluminum and trying different styles. My first race gun still has one of the first mounts we made. 👍👍😎😎

[krazykat]

That comment regarding new shooters is spot on. When I was working the range as a Marine in the 80's it was far, FAR easier to get a someone who'd never touched a firearm in their life to be proficient than try and alter the habits of people who had been hunting and shooting since they could walk.

[jamomeara]

I’m relatively new with a red dot on my CCW. It has definitely slowed down my target acquisition compared to irons. I am working on it

[rbellamy]

I just bought my first pistol red dot, Holosun EPS for an M&P Shield Plus. My initial impression was "Wow...I kind of hate this thing. Should I get a refund?" 😆 But I've been dry fire and live fire training with it for two months now, it's grown on me - finding the dot easier. And long distance shots are WAAAY easier with it. I'm a believer. Thanks for the video, John!