Matt vs Japan X @OrientalPearl Debate: Classes, Early Output & Fluency

Are language class helpful? Is it a good idea to speak from day 1? What does it mean to be "fluent"? In this video, I had the great pleasure of arguing for some of my unorthodox language learning opinions in a friendly debate with Oriental Pearl!

***MY LINKS***

[OrientalPearl]

I love the open discussion. It’s just like in grad school when my classmates and I would debate each other in class and go out for shakes afterwards. Love your channel Matt. I agree with you.... 90% 😆

[realjayjobes]

Love people that're able to disagree without seeing that as a personal attack.

[gregai]

The biggest problem about advocating for classes vs self study is anyone is able to watch native material in their target language with YouTube or a Netflix subscription, but not all of us are able to fly to that country, pay for 4 hour intensive classes, while busy studying for high school, college, or working.

[muttlanguages]

If fluent is speaking without any stops, I'm not even fluent in my native language! Shoot.

[Conversationswithtony]

I went to an Italian Language immersion school in southern Italy and saw myself and others rapidly learn Italian. I had a small foundation of Italian before arriving but my roommate and many others had 0 Italian background. I watched my roommate go from 0 to be able to have conversations in the street with strangers in only 2 months. We did Italian lessons for 5 hours a day, 4 days a week and no English was ever used in the class. Even the text book was written entirely in Italian. Sounds crazy to some but it works extremely well.

[isabel]

Awesome video Matt! I love how well spoken you are, it's really engaging and pleasant to listen to. Also, the way you're able to disagree with someone without making it seem like you're above them is just an amazing skill that more people should know. This friendly debate between you and Anming was just amazing and I'm so happy that you've bee able to upload more videos again.

[edwards]

Damn, you Matt. Always making me drop my immersion for your content haha

[daysandwords]

I like Oriental Pearl but having felt the same way as her about 14-18 months ago, and now feeling different, I think that she draws weird conclusions from what she sees. e.g. "It's going to slow your pronunciation down quite a lot to not speak in the first 6 months..."
Well, if it's going to take your 3-5 years, no. If you're trying to produce Italian when you already speak fluent Spanish, maybe. But otherwise it's the equivalent to spending one hour fitting a turbo charger to a car that's going to drive a 24 hour race. It is a "waste" of the first hour, but you'll overtake the cars that jumped off the line straight away with no turbo.

[sehbanomer]

I totally agree with OrientalPearl on the importance of "correction". If there's no one who corrects your mistakes, mistakes will become permanent habbits.
That's why I totally agree with Matt on the importance of input. Because no English teacher will follow you 24/7 and correct every single mistake that you make. That's why it's important to develop the ability to "sense" your own mistakes. That's what you get by lots of input, the intuitive feeling of "this doesn't sound right".

[raenastra]

Sounds like the biggest difference in their opinions comes from Matt studying without living in the country and Anming studying while living in the country. It's great to hear both perspectives!

[furretar]

I'd rather spend 6 hours watching TV shows than spend it traditionally studying, let alone paying for the classes

[gansogames]

My take is that she describes what is probably the fastest way to learn a language, whereas Matt describes the easiest way to effectively learn a language.

[vincentsheerin]

Theres more than one way to make an omelette but one of them's always gonna taste the best

[Pawlsolidus]

I think the best is a combination of both methodologies. I've studied japanese in a language learning school dedicated to japanese culture for about 4 years, passed JLPT N5 stopped for some years, came back to study with an online teacher, passed JLTP N4 and stopped again. When I say stopped it is stopping to study and to have immersion. If at least I kept immersion it wouldn't be so bad, but now I'm trying this method and wish to go back taking online classes to pass JLPT N3 and of course not forget everything that I have learned so far.

[yoshi]

Love your channel, Matt! I'm a native Japanese, but I grew up in Europe, and besides Japanese, I'm fluent in English and German, and I'm on my way to becoming fluent in Russian. I only recently discovered your channel but looking back I realize that what I've been doing all my life is just these 2 things you're always going on about: immersion and learning vocabulary/phrases. You only need to focus and give 100% on these two things and you'll eventually become fluent, and that's the only ticket, pretty much! Everything else (like learning grammar) is extra. And I started over 20 years ago, when I was in my teens.... Cheers and all the best!

[rimenahi]

Matt... You're a mad genius. I love your ideas. They even did change me as a person. Thank you.

[TkyoSam]

The more I keep seeing my hot sons out there doing their own thing makes me proud as an online Youtube dad. Both of you are being able to have a debate and disagree without taking it personally. Wish the internet showcased more people like this vs the later. Good job you two! Papa is 大変プラウドだ！！！

[heathersaxton]

On Stephen Crashen and comprehensible input: I have never interpreted his work as discouraging the acquirer from speaking at an early stage but simply that the acquirer should not be pressured to speak before they are ready. This ties together with foreign language anxiety and the affective filter which is a huge part of the comprehensible input theory. If you’re feeling stressed or anxious in the classroom or situation you’re in your ability to acquire the input will be limited, according to the theory. But if you enjoy talking and feel ready to try I don’t recall krashen ever having spoken against it.
Problem with a lot of foreign language classrooms is that students are often pressured to speak when they are in fact not ready yet, causing them a less optimal environment for acquisition.

I personally enjoy talking to people from a pretty early stage and learning that way comes much more naturally to me than binge watching a bunch of media content. And let’s not forget that conversations provide comprehensible input all the same as listening and reading materials :)

[JapanWalkerJJ]

I'm not just impressed by Matt's japanese but also his English. The way he speaks and expresses himself and his choice of words are all perfect and not even a single stutter.
Not only do I wish to be as good as him in japanese but also in English. I feel like no matter how much I input in English I'll always stutter and use the wrong word here and there.

edit:
ALSO STAR LIGHT. YEAH YOU WITH THE MITSUHA PIC. I SEE YOU EVERYWHERE AND I KNOW YOU'RE READING THIS COMMENT.

[NoRefund]

The thing is though, all of her ways to combat the negative effects of her method, require a HUGE amount of resources that many people don't have. Not everyone can afford a class that has a teacher that knows what their doing with a classroom size of 5.