Nuclear Engineer Reacts to Engineering Degree Tier List by Shane Hummus

[JKTCGMV]

It’s always disheartening hearing the reality of how who you know is more important than what you know.

[bagelman]

My grandfather did agricultural engineering in the Soviet Union. I have no clue what his actual degree was, but the job had a pretty big plus; he got a way bigger variety of food than most people in the Soviet Union since he worked directly with many different farmers.

[berkkarsi]

30:19 the part you're looking for

[Fragilisticnew]

i remember when this guy just had a few thousand subscribers, nice to seem him growing

[Merennulli]

I was originally trying for a petroleum engineering degree (based on bad advice that it was the "next best thing to paleontology that actually pays a living wage") before switching to computer information systems (business oriented version of software engineer) and he's absolutely right to look at it as an investment rather than just doing what you want to do. The NAME of your degree is a brand, and your self-marketing as a first time employee is going to include that branding. (I typed this before he pointed out it's your "brand name" but I'm keeping it because the point is worth repeating.)

It doesn't limit what you can do but it limits who you can do it for, limiting your access to aspects of the job market. Having sat on hiring panels many times, I will say that, yes, you can get a job that in no way matches what your degree title is if the people deciding who the hiring panel interviews with is of the right mindset to consider you. But even with a good manager, if the company runs it through an internal algorithm or the HR department is just playing word match with titles to filter out applications...you're just out those opportunities. That can give you an advantage if you're an Ag. E. looking for a job with agricultural engineering work, but it can also limit your options if you're an Ag. E. who can't afford to move and the only jobs in your area are for Civ. E.'s even though you're effectively just as capable as someone with a Civ. E. degree title. (And, yes, some employers will pay moving expenses even for college grads, but that is EXTREMELY affected by demand and in my experience correlates strongly with automated applicant filtering because offering to pay expenses tends to get a lot of unqualified applicants.)

There's also a factor of intent wrapped up in the degree title. It may not feel fair to look at someone with a marine engineering degree and dismiss their application for an electrical engineering job when they only have a few hours of training difference that is probably woefully outdated in the EE's college classes anyway. But the reality is, any hiring manager looking at that matchup is going to think the Mar. E. just wants a temp job until they can find what they went to college for and they're going to overlook that candidate before ever talking to them.

I'll also add, those of us who look for employees whose work doesn't necessarily match their degree title are most often those who are paying less. Not being overwhelmed by options is a driving factor for an employer learning to look deeper. Don't get me wrong - that can also make it a great place to work because the employer values you, but the tradeoff is in pay or stability.

You do need to pick something that you can live with, but you also need to pick something you can live ON. I would actually say, invest in what you think you will enjoy AND get paid to do. Then be willing to apply that degree to jobs that don't match the title if your interests change or if the openings just aren't there. And always make sure the cover letter of your application very clearly explains why you would be a good fit, ESPECIALLY if your degree title doesn't match the job.

You are right that who you know makes a huge difference, but unless your university or college has professors who are working professionals, or a great reputation or a great placement program, you probably don't know anyone and you're not going to get to know anyone without landing an internship or first job. A mentor is great, but you have to get into a position for someone to even consider mentoring you. Getting to know people and building relationships is your most effective and long-term task, but you have to find an inroad to do it.

I would also stress practicing interviewing with family or friends who have experience in hiring. Someone who can proof read your first cover letters and grill you in interview style so you're prepared and can control your nerves by the time you get to a real interview - because, after the cover letter, a real interview is your second chance to start building communication with those who might become your critical first contacts if you can't find them within the college. I've sat on many interviews where we on the panel desperately tried to help some poor, nervous wreck answer our questions so we could give them a chance and even with us trying to help them and both softballing questions and trying to lead them towards good answers, they just couldn't. And we're a lot nicer than a lot of interview panels I've been on. Just being able to answer questions clearly and understand what's being asked gets your foot in the door where others technically more qualified than you might have faltered.

As for Pet. E., my original career path, I fully agree with his rating. Even in the late 90s when I started classes, the first thing the dean of the department said to us was that petroleum as a fuel was not the future. He envisioned the degree continuing to be relevant as a supply of oil for manufacturing and chemical uses rather than energy. But let's be blunt - that's going to be a lot less Pet. E.'s with jobs specifying their degree. And there's going to be the stigma of "petroleum" being associated with the evil oil industry that chose profits over the world because you did choose a degree with that label on it. So it definitely takes a hit for that. Yes, it transitions easily into mechanical or chemical engineering work, but less of it than you might get with better branding, dragging it down to B tier. On the flip side, yes, the pay is incredible. My barber at the time knew someone whose son went into it and was making $300k a year in a 6 month on, 6 month off setup. With the caveat being that he was in Bosnia and the area was getting bombed at the time he was there.

I will also agree wholeheartedly with you that all engineering degrees are S tier. We have more engineering jobs than engineering students, and we always will need more. And you can't do much better than engineering to better the world because you go into it learning how to learn what you need to in order to be safe and make the right decisions for long term success of your work. With this list, we're splitting some very fine hairs to declare one better than another because there is transferrability between them and they all pay well, but I actually agree with Shane that the difference is worth being aware of as you make decisions.

Sorry for writing a novel here. Obviously, this is something I care a lot about as someone who, on an interview panel, has had to say no to very talented young people at the start of their careers who were undermined by a lack of preparation and forethought.

[I_Am_Transcendentem]

Listing petroleum engineering above Nuclear Engineering is horrid

[Sgt-Gravy]

We all gotta eat & with an up tick in vegan diets, I was shocked at the agriculture engineers being so low. Vertical farming, space exploration farming, national forests, ... agriculture is so vital, it shocked me it is ranked so low.

[mochajohnson]

You should make a tier list of radioisotopes, ranking them based on how hazardous they are (activity, type of radiation emitted, ease of storage/disposal, chemical toxicity, etc).

[IsYitzach]

My dad got his degree in petroleum engineering. His recommendation is to get a general degree or perpetually in-demand degree. The general degrees are Civil E, Chem E, and Mech E. The perpetually in-demand degree he recommends is Electrical E. I think we can Software E and Computer Science to that list.
His insights comes from having started his degree when the degree was in-demand and then he graduated when there was a glut of those graduates.
You can get stock options even if the company isn't publicly traded. Applied Research Associates, Inc pays some stocks and they do it by being owned by the employees.

[Enginette]

From my experience, it’s who your university has connections with. It’s those institutions that tend to support internships and co-ops that allow you to grow relationships within.

[toobigtofit]

Where I went to school, you could choose coursework to lean more towards either the Electrical Engineering side of things or the Computer Engineering side of things, but your degree at the end of the day said Electrical and Computer Engineering.

[ThatJay]

with a nuclear car, i wouldn't want to wait at least 24h for the Xe-135 in its reactor to clear before i start it up again

[funtechu]

I have to disagree with his assertion that EE is a "less specific" degree than CpE. Computer Engineering is typically equivalent to a dual major of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, so it's actually more broad than EE alone. Typically with a CpE graduate you can choose with your electives to go more in the hardware design or software design direction, so when hiring it's important to consider electives, but in general CpE graduates can fit well into any position that requires both hardware and software skills.

[RyanMercer]

I had a checkpoint/rravel letter to there at the beginning of lockdown.

[ItsBabaEro]

Its scary to hear that "who you know" is more important than "what you know" because im currently in my senior hear for my Bachelors in Electrical Engineering and I have not made any connections with people in the industry. I need to be more proactive about reaching out and trying to get internships, especially since i dont have much time left until i graduate.

[Peachcreekmedia]

The guys with high GPAs were really pissed at me who had a 3.2 but made connections, worked internships, and worked full-time entry level jobs early in my degree. When we graduated I was elevated to an operations manager and they were starting. Who you know and what you do early is so very critical. You can go to Harvard or you can go to state get any major, start early with a top tier company and beat the Ivy kids. I graduated and had the following:
Political Science/Religion Major
Series 6, 7, 63
Six Sigma Certification
3 years in a top 10 Broker Dealer.
Your GPA isn't as important as your connections.

[dannyboy]

Things are changing. Employers are ignoring degrees and are hiring based on skills in pockets of the US. This doesn't apply for job like nuclear that are essential.

[abdullaali]

Did he seriously just call Materials Engineering mediocre? At that point, I couldn’t help but feel that he may not fully understand what he is talking about. Materials Science and Engineering are absolutely vital to technological advancement, right up there with Electrical Engineering. Without breakthroughs in materials, we wouldn’t have innovations like semiconductors, advanced batteries, or nanotechnology, all of which are essential to modern life and even critical developments in electrical systems. Both fields work hand-in-hand to drive progress, and dismissing one as mediocre shows a lack of appreciation for the incredible impact Materials Engineering has on our world.

[Trump]

I’m a marine engineer. Demand is not low, but pay has gone down. Seems like everyone is always hiring marine engineers, at least on the coast. Pay is not great right now, after the oil patch work dried up salaries have dropped. I don’t recommend marine engineering as a career today, the US fleet is in decline and the oil money is gone. Now 20-30 years ago marine engineering was an absolutely amazing job the money was great and it was definitely a great career.

[abyssaljam]

I'm a (graduate) Naval Architect, with a masters in Marine Technology. Basically a mix of Naval Architecture and Marine Engineer. So within a dockyard I'm like gold dust, outside I'm a slightly more fluid-ie civil engineer...