Wife Is Asking Me To Attend Classes For Daughter's Baptism| Michael-CO |The Atheist Experience 24.47

SHOW TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro And Announcements
05:47 How D.B. Ramsey Got From There To Here
12:08 Michael-CO | Wife Is Asking Me To Attend Classes For Daughters Baptism
21:07 Paul-(EG) | Atheists Are Straw-Manning Prayer
33:50 Enoch-PA | How to Address Morality With Selfish People?
38:15 Danny-LA | God Is The Best Explanation For The Supernatural
48:32 Beth-MN | Why Does The Catholic Church Shuffle Criminal Priests Around?
55:08 Greg-FL | Why Is Slavery Immoral?
1:02:13 Mac-CA | The Necessity Of Religion On Morality
1:24:12 Julian-FL | If Determinism Is True, How Can You Know Anything?
1:27:23 What Was The One Thing That Made You Change Your Mind?
1:33:12 Outro

SHOW NOTES

Our first caller, Michael in CO is engaged to a Christian who wants to baptize his daughter and make him go to classes about it first. No one should be forced to participate in religion. Making you go to classes seems more like she is trying to change you. Decide what you are comfortable with and have those discussions with your wife.

Paul in England argues that atheists are strawmanning prayer, citing atheists equating prayer to wish granting from a genie. We don’t espouse that position. Paul agrees that the Bible supports answered prayers but says people skip the thanks part. The notion that someone’s prayers aren’t answered because they aren’t thankful or positive enough is abhorrent.

Enoch in PA asks how we address morality with someone who says they care about only themselves. Does that person want food, healthcare, transportation? If they are not willing to contribute, they are disenfranchising themselves from society. We have never met anyone that really didn’t care.

Danny in LA thinks that God is the best explanation for the supernatural/non-natural. You first need to define supernatural AND God. We agree that you can’t verify the supernatural, at least. The mind is not supernatural...oof. The mind is a label we put on what the brain does. How can you show something is non-natural?

Beth in MN why does the catholic church shuffle criminal priests around? We are aware of the systematic child abuse and the coverup, how anyone can still support the catholic church is beyond us. Sadly this happens in protestant churches as well.

Greg in FL wants to have a logical conversation about why slavery is immoral. Do you feel it should be legal to own you as a slave? Greg wants to move the slavery discussion away from humans. That is what slavery is about, owning humans as property. We are stewards of our pets/animals that we own, you can’t just beat your pets.

Mac in CA asks about the necessity of religion and how it relates to a belief in god. Religion is not necessary. People don’t necessarily end up religious, some look for more scientific answers to life. Morality is NOT inherently tied to religion, there is such a thing as secular morality. Secular Morality does not lean on religion, it started in opposition to religion after religion.

Lastly, Julian in FL if compatibilism or determinism is true, how do you know anything was true if you were determined to believe it. Because you were determined to believe, doesn't mean one can’t be determined to not believe. The assessment of truth is that which comports with reality.

Thanks for tuning in, we are so glad you joined us today. Please continue to follow safety guidelines for COVID-19 and stay safe out there.

► Podcast versions of the show may be found at:

► Join the ACA Fan Discord:

-------

WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE?

The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.

VISIT THE ACA'S OFFICIAL WEB SITE

NOTES

TheAtheistExperience is the official channel of The Atheist Experience. "The Atheist Experience" is a trademark of the ACA.

The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.

Opening Theme:
Limited use license by Shelley Segal
Copyright © 2011 Shelley Segal

Copyright © 1997-2020 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.

[imbwildrd]

For every hour of baptism classes this guy takes, his wife has to engage with the atheist community for as many hours, including a call into The Atheist Experience.

[Enclave.]

Oof, that's rough. You'd think his wife would respect him enough to not ask him to go through with that.

[critical-thought-all]

Everyone appears to be overlooking the fact that the caller stated, at the start of the call, that he’s engaged to be married, and they have a seven month old daughter. They are not married yet. With that in mind, the issue here is really one of compatibility — should he continue on and marry his Catholic fiancé, not his wife, who clearly doesn’t respect him or his atheism. He’s about to enter into a world of problems. And because he has a daughter with the woman, he feels obligated to follow through and do so. Not a good scenario. May this serve as a cautionary tale to any Atheist who gets involved with a theist, and has a child with them, ostensibly unplanned, before addressing and resolving such crucial issues.

[krisaaron]

I was dragged to church three times a week by my devout (to the point of near hysteria) mother. My father often viciously mocked her religion, sending her into tears. The day I turned 18 I stopped going to church and refused to discuss it further.
She eventually had my infant son baptized without telling me. When I demanded to know what "god" would send an unbaptized child to hell she resorted to her usual sobs and hysteria as a "defense", the reaction she'd used all her life to defend her beliefs.
I think this caller needs to have a serious discussion with his wife about her religious obsessions. Insisting others share her beliefs is close to abuse -- I don't see how forcing him to take "classes" so his child can be baptized has as much to do with the child as it does with attempting to convert him. Will he want the conflict that's sure to happen when his wife keeps pushing him to take the child to church? Will she use the child to force him to join whatever group she's part of?
Believing fantasies isn't the sign of a well-balanced, stable mind.

[machintelligence]

I wouldn't take any classes, nor would I guarantee that she would be raised Catholic. They can baptize her, but it's just water. When she gets older it's her choice to make whether she will join the Church.

[ritawing]

Just read Ramsey's book, I always like texts where you can see a real passion showing through, well done!

[raymondluxury-yacht]

I went to church with my religious girl friend and I always asked the pastor questions just beyond his capacity to answer. It was great watching his face when confronted with thinking about his faith, which I'm sure is something that didn't happen often. That made it totally worth while.

[markborder]

Sadly, I can see the possibility of a break-up, here. I have no idea how this will be resolved amicably, but I sincerely hope it can be.

[trishayamada]

Nope you don’t have to go to classes. She wants the kid baptized, ok, but I’d never take a goddamn class, ever.

[legionleschyzophrene]

His wife didn't even bother to wait for the daughter to give her opinion, talk about endoctrination at birth

[jyidorne]

This really pisses me off. Not only is she being extremely manipulative and devious about it, but to me it looks like she's going to try to decide from the get go that her daughter is going be a catholic. I would wager a guess that when the daughter grows older, the wife is going to say "oh, but she's already baptized, so it's decided" instead of letting her choose what she believes in. Disgusting and infuriating.

[MrPeterschmit]

The question needed to be answered before the baby arrived. He needed to know what he was dealing with first. If he submits now itll set a bad precident.

[JMUDoc]

The question Michael needs to ask his fiance is "why do you want me there?".
This is a horrible situation - I would simply not _allow_ my partner to indoctrinate our child with religion.

[lidbass]

I live in a very Catholic country. I happily went through the baptism and catechism of my kids, went to all the courses, attended all the services, mostly to keep my wife and mother-in-law quiet. Meanwhile I had private conversations with my kids, telling them of my personal opinions, but making it clear to them that I was not forcing them to agree with me and that any decision they took would be respected. They are now both atheists. (Partly, I suspect, because they are too lazy to go to church, but what the heck!). I don’t know Michael’s situation, but I would just tell him to do the same. Remember also that if he goes to these classes, he then has the high moral ground and a bargaining chip for future discussions.

[cyclometre]

The last time I went to church some bastard tried to drown me so I never went back again...LOL!

[FallingGalaxy]

I would not allow someone to indoctrinate my child. Even the other parent. I would do my all to make sure my kid was taught how to think, not what to think.

[digipoke]

Michael, assuming you're reading these comments, let me just say you seem like a really great guy. I hope it all goes well man.

[moses]

I grew up catholic and hated that fact we had to take all these preparatory classes for each 7 saracments. Every Wednesday, my siblings and I had to go catechism in which I hated because we had to go school again, but in the afternoon. Seriously, what kind of kid would want to go school again instead of relax after school. There was a class for everything.

[nwlly]

Very interesting call. Good luck mate, whatever you decide to do

[timothywilliams]

None of my children were baptized, or ever saw the inside of a church; they are free thinking intellectuals with an atheistic proud of them.