Can a Catholic be a socialist? | Trent Horn @TheCounselofTrent | Just Asking Questions, Ep. 29

Catholic Answers apologist Trent Horn explores the nexus of Catholic social teaching and libertarianism.

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Can a Catholic be a socialist? Can a libertarian be a Catholic? Just asking questions. 

Today's guest, Trent Horn, is an apologist and speaker for Catholic Answers and a defender of capitalism. He hosts The Counsel of Trent podcast and has authored several books on Catholicism, including Can a Catholic Be a Socialist? In this episode, we discuss the themes of that book, respond to some of the anti-capitalist rhetoric that has come from the Vatican over the past decade, analyze the rise of "post-liberal" Catholics on the right, and question whether religion is becoming more palatable to the modern person.

Sources referenced in the conversation:

Timestamps
00:00 Opening Monologue
01:25 Can a Catholic Defend Capitalism?
03:30 Pope Francis and Capitalism
05:21 Historical Criticisms of Socialism
07:06 The Tension Between Employers and Workers
09:38 Catholic Teachings on Economics
29:35 Libertarianism and Catholicism: A Natural Overlap?
41:50 The Role of Natural Law in Catholic Thought
43:49 Understanding Catholic Definitions of Law
44:06 Natural Law and Moral Commands
45:42 Human Laws and Justice
48:28 Catholicism and Science
50:35 Liberty and the Good Life
52:46 Debating Legalization of Prostitution
54:49 Libertarianism and Consumerism
01:01:39 Catholic Politics and State Intervention
01:13:21 Jordan Peterson on Catholicism
01:19:31 Final Thoughts: Who are you supposed to be?

[microsoftpain]

I would have never expected Trent Horn to appear on the political side of youtube. I'd really like to see Trent Horn and Tom Woods talk together.

[thedigitalsymphony]

Totally wasn't expecting this crossover, but it's a welcome one nonetheless!

[justintrefney]

Libertarianism brought me to the Catholic Church. Specifically Traditional Catholicism. I noticed how may people I listened to were Traditional Catholics and started to read St Thomas Aquinas.

[joeydell]

This was actually a great episode! Thanks! PLS do more about Catholics and libertarianism!

[bmgmusa]

Great discussion. As a evangelical, Trent is a very respectable Catholic apologist. He does make you think 🤔 and question your priors.

[charlisdad]

Yoooo, are you kidding? My boy Trent and Reason? Made my day

[rikimez]

Ay Trent Horn! Great guest good job and great thinking about does the Catholic faith favor an economic system

[silverpesos]

¡Gracias! Great interview with Tent Horn.

[silntwintr]

I enjoyed this conversation so much. More and more, I adore liz and her input. I would have liked to hear the Catholic perspective on personal autonomy. When is another person allowed to impose on another persons autonomy?

"I exist on the borders of things"
I have some criticisms of Jordan Peterson, but that speaks to me deeply

[alexs.]

I must admit that, to my Catholic sensibilities, the term 'libertarianism' initially suggests 'licentiousness'. I lost all respect for this woman when I realized she was a libertarian . However, as I watched the video, I regained my respect for her. Libertarianism does not exactly mean what I thought it meant.

[partydean]

Wow this is VERY unexpected. But welcomed. I've been struggling with the catholic teachings on these things because it seems to very much favor socialists

[pwhqnglevzegz]

"Shut in video game libertarian"
How apt to hear while playing Metal Gear 😅

[jm]

Great discussion, I'm a libertarian catholic and I learned a lot here!

[tinyleopard]

Thanks, never expected such an episode. I'm glad Mr. Trent Horn and Reason did this.

[joedunnuck]

I get the best of both worlds in this interview!

[Kaede-Sasaki]

Yes, just not a Marxist. Just as libertarians are not the same as conservatives, not all socialists are marxists.

Can a catholic be a libertarian is a bit difficult. Depends on how libertarian.

[tonyl]

Can't get any better than Catholic + capitalist. Love Trent Horn, Tom Woods, Fr Sirico et al at Acton Institute

[acem]

I mean, my argument against being any kind of Christian and a socialist is that socialism violates "Don't covet", then "Don't steal", then "Don't murder". Then again, I'm just a lowly Protestant, so what do I know? :)

[cristiana]

Yes, lots of people have contradicting beliefs.

[moru]

1. Moral
You should not "give to the poor" because some book or some single authority says so, but because you see the beneficial effects a moral system like this has on people and the social environments we design.

2. socialism / capitalism
Capitalism is "bad" by design, considering you see the following things as bad:
Capitalism is designed to offer you consumption in regard to the capacity of your capital. So "working" people only get access to a minor amount of consumption, in first place the consumption necessary to preserve your life, while some "lucky" people, who often gain a major step ahead because of wealthy heritage, have an inherent access to huge amounts of consumption. That's not a flaw in capitalistic design - it IS capitalistic design.
Socialism, while in theory is "good" by design, is extremely vulnerable to the people who run the system. In pretty much all attempts people started to build socialist systems a capitalistic elite formed to controll it and alienated the system to take most of the benefits for themselves and split the rest onto the "socialistic" managed base.
So there are bad socialists, and bad capitalism. Not the other way around.
Naturally, only as long as you say selling slaves for work and your mother and daughter to men for money is a bad thing - both things would be pretty much encouraged actions in true capitalism and by illegalizing theese practices you automatically limit capitalism, while in true socialism / Marxism every form of slavery would pretty much create a paradox in definition.

So - imho - since capitalism for itself is bad and true socialism is weak we NEED a combination of both systems.

3. Sweden
Thats wrong.
Sweden has 26 billionaires for 10.500.000 residents and the us has 756 billionaires for 333.000.000 residents (about 30 times the billionaires for about 30 times the residents).
So the relative numbers are pretty similar.
A difference is to be noted - us-billionaires are about ~20% richer in average than swedish billionaires, while this still is pulled up by an extremely small amount of crazy rich people, while far less swedish "workers" die because of untreated illnesses etc.