Brian Leftow - Is God's Freedom Limited?

To assess the limits of God's freedom is to probe the essence of what it means for a Supreme Being to exist. Assuming God created the cosmos, it would seem that nothing can limit God's freedom. But some things, like making 3+4=8 are logically impossible, and other things, like torturing babies, contradict God's goodness. Must God's freedom be diminished?

[cookieDaXapper]

God's freedom is not defined by our limited minds/knowledge/experience. An infinite being cannot be fantomed by limited beings perspective, to say so is folly, and does not follow it's own ruleset. PEACE.

[Paulus_Brent]

Frankly, I find these ruminations a bit superficial. This emphasis on God's rationality is misplaced from the outset. Eventually God is "supra-rational" and couldn't care less about being "rational" and having concepts as "good" or "bad" we humans would like him to be. As to the "objective best answer" just imagine that there is not only one but an infinite number of possible best answers. Therefore, God can pick one of the many best answers and be still perfectly free to choose. Problem solved. I think we should try to look a bit further and pay more attention where our unconscious assumptions are.

[jackmabel]

Which god, of the thousands created by mankind, is Mr. Leftow speaking of? Wish all people speaking and writing about "god" would specifically define just what being they are discussing.

[Konoshinobi]

It's not that God exists rather that God is Existence, Life Good, Logic, et cetera.

[suncat]

These guys, essentially, are discussing how many angels fit on the head of a pin. God would have mentality and consciousness so far beyond human that it would be beyond comprehension, just as the consciousness of a human is vastly beyond that of an insect.

[robinhodgkinson]

I love the way this is talked about as if it’s without question. Faith is so wonderful. Believe first. Rationalise second. I guess he’s quite similar to me really - there’s a thousand gods I don’t believe in. He just believes in one less. Funny that...

[TheMirabillis]

No Perfectly Good God would Create a Hell nor Create anyone whom He knew would go to Hell.

[vjntstar]

why is the theist so bent on saying that god must be "perfect" in every way? Cannot god be "just above average" in most areas to do whatever he's got to do? I dont see the need for the maximum in all areas. And clearly we do not live in a world that screams perfection so ....

[User-jrvf]

9:25 - the Christian god does bad things, according to his own words in Isaiah 45:7

[azra]

I dont think humans can know these things about God, he is a mistery

[uremove]

This is like Plato’s Euthyphro dilemma (cf. Divine Command Theory)... Is something good because God does it, or is God limited only to actions that are good? Get stuck on either horn of the dilemma, and absurdity results. If the first, “The Good”, is seemingly the whim of a divine dictator, if the second, God is not free, let alone omnipotent.

I think it’s a problem of anthropomorphism... If God doesn’t “have” loves, but IS love (ie. the underlying relational Unity as the Ground of all being), or doesn’t so much know truth but IS truth (ie. as the ultimate reality) then Euthyphro’s dilemma is a false dichotomy. In other words, if God is the Unity at the source of the diversity we see, then God transcends all dualities like good and evil. However, for the theist, just as dark is not a something, but is the absence of light, so evil is not a thing in itself but is the absence of good. Love unites, while hatred rejects, truth accords with reality, while falsehood abhors it.

Hence IMO, God, does not ‘do’ good (freely or otherwise), but rather as the ultimate reality, IS “The Good” as it’s Platonic Form... ie. the “Summum Bonum”, while evil is its absence, and the rejection of reality.

[johnbrowne]

Where's the bar and the beer? Gezz.🍺🍻

[TheFuzzician]

I have to say, I have become deeply disappointed by the triviality of some of these questions. Asking anything questions relating to attributes of something like "God" is completely pointless, when humans do not even have a coherent definition of one, let alone the fact that this idea has manifested in thousands of different ways in different cultures.
Closer To Truth, please return to the interesting discussions about things that actually relate to our existence. Philosophy has its place to, as long as you don't go too far.

[Phoebus]

In the beginning he was putting computational complexity on God image, which is good to understand a new view of a non standard God. But putting freedom of choice in that is hard to understand 😏

[bonesjones]

Perhaps God is limited by the laws of physics.

[grybnyx]

"So that's not a picture of God that I find congenial". So much mental effort expended dishonestly in finding explanations of reality that conform to the existence of a Being that is all about "love". God was made in the image of man.

[pjtube]

This is a meaningless question and meaningless questions would lead to centuries old discussions to find an answer. "Freedom" or "limitedness" are concepts applicable to agents or entities. What if God is neither an agent nor an entity at least in the sense we can imagine what an agent or entity could ever be? If this is the case, our application of these concepts to God and this kind of questions becomes irrelevant and non-sensical.

[utavatar]

I'm really more concerned about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

[vjntstar]

Brian: 12:57-13:02 "Be what you are, that what being a good person is for god"
Me: Killers, psychopaths, crazy people be what you are God loves it apparentlty !

[Cor]

Two ants discussing a human being: "Did He just step on Freddy?" "Dear Human! He did!" "Did He WANT to kill Freddy?" "Well, not in our sense of 'want' like I 'WANT' to serve the Queen. I can't think of anything I'd rather do, so that's my 'WANT'." " But surely that's because we are DETERMINED and can WANT all we like but not WILL it, but Human can WILL whatever He WANTS." "True, but Human can only WANT what's best. Surely that's why we live in the best of all possible worlds." "I've heard of Antgloss's theory, but surely Human could have created a world in which He couldn't step on Freddy! "Oh no, that theory implies that Human is not all-knowing and all-powerful, that He isn't the Perfection of the Perfect, that He did LESS than He could have done." "So Human is limited by the limits of His Perfection?" " Let me think about that one and get back to you. Meanwhile keep your eye out for falling shoes!"