Vegas ATC GETS ANGRY WITH PILOTS during Extreme Weather

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[CaffeineGeek]

Spirit needs to know their sequence. After 10 minutes, they charge every passenger with a $5 USD "Airport Sightseeing Tour" fee.

[ghostrider-beek]

That sounds like a supervisor that piped up "NO, WERE NOT DOING THAT" - the initial ATC seemed pretty chill.

[bellc]

So for some context. I was on frequency on this day. Weather off the departure end of 8L caused the airport to have to turn around. These turn around take time, stopping departures, creating a backlog. That slows down departures, creating a further backlog.

Pilots have a minimum amount of fuel we have have at takeoff, and we can't takeoff with less than this. There are a couple of dispatcher tricks we can use to lower that number a bit. But if we had a 30 minute taxi planned and now the taxi time is 45 minutes, or an hour, due to an unexpected delay, its very easy to get close to this number.

We can shut down one engine, if we need to move. Or both if we don't. But the engines have warm up times before we can take off we need to be aware of.

I say all that to say, knowing the sequence helps us know how long we are going to be delayed. We use that to weigh all these and decide when to start one or both engines, communicate with the company and passengers (because after so long we have to offer service).

And yes, a few minutes might make the difference between going to the gate or being able to take off. If I know I won't be able to go, I'll go back to the gate. These delays are dynamic.

[spelldaddy]

It sounds like the controller is not trying to be a hard asa, he's just overwhelmed. He has to make sure he has proper separation with the airborne aircraft, he has a lot of aircraft waiting on him to depart but they have to be careful with the weather. The controller knows that the longer they wait for weather the longer his backlog of aircraft will be. Then he probably has supervisors and/or tracon trying to talk to him. It can get stressful and overwhelming, and he just can't handle unnecessary comms with the aircraft, hence the outburst. Once things calm down a little bit and he has a free moment, he's able to give information to the pilots that need it

[ACPECHAN]

Dispatcher at a major airline here in the US...KLAS has had 01L/19R closed since early april affecting arrival/departure rates and when the winds start gusting to the point where the 26's shut down (which seems to be almost daily) its a guarantee for GDP's/Departure Delays. 30 min of taxi fuel is the bare minimum at this point.

[westadam]

I happened to be flying out of Vegas that day and can tell you it was messy. I heard most of the various conversations about where your place is in line. Its no doubt that ATC was stressed. Construction had one of the runways closed, so ALL departures were being funneled to one runway. It was a very windy ALL day with gusts to 40. It was a heavy traffic volume type of day as there were several sporting events that happened along with EDC and such over the weekend. There were already 1 hour delays leaving Vegas. I remember counting over 20 airplanes in line for takeoff while I was waiting to taxi out. I was fortunate that I was able to shut down to conserve fuel, as I was over a hour and a half late departing to my destination. What caused the biggest problem was that there was a wind shift and the runway configuration changed. So if you were number 4 for takeoff and they swapped runways you went from number 4 to number 20 for takeoff. Cant blame people asking what their sequence is. I returned 2 hours later and there was still 15 airplanes waiting to take off from one runway.

[robertmog]

"Tower, could you provide the next 10 departures, arrivals, and all taxiing sequences so that we can be prepared? Also, please provide a proof for the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus in your spare moment. And, can I get a cup of coffee, please? Thanks!"

[robertlworley]

Everybody has those moments where they are just a bit overwhelmed and someone asks a question at just the wrong time.

[sb]

Controllers will often advise pilots to shut down engines for an extended delay. Good controllers will also advise when to start them up again for proper sequencing.

[iamcavok]

ATC was correct and I don’t describe his response as “ANGRY”

[martajansson]

There was a bird strike at Stockholm Arlanda today, could you find the recordings and post them? Don't know airline or flightnumber unfortunately but it was departing Stockholm and heading to the US so I think it's either Delta or SAS (Scandinavian airlines).

[aawillma]

Was that the supervisor came on air for that? The voices sounded different. First controller was busy working and was just ignoring the sequencing questions he couldn't answer. Then later he did end up telling 1808 his sequence and didn't seem upset at all. I think the dressing down in the middle was from a sup.

[HapyLLIuTeJIb]

"list the next 10 departures"?? I'd say the controller's outburst was quite justified.

[chrisholmes]

ATC was firm but not angry. They had a heavy workload and an annoying customer. It didn’t escalate. Good work ATC.

[sesboks]

I believe they had just turned the airport around prior to when the video starts, so that also affected the departures

[TOGALOCK]

Vegas has been a pain in the ass the last couple weeks. Any kind of weather in it all goes down hill kind of like LGA/EWR/JFK. It’s always speed up, slow down, speed up, 15 left for in trail.

[billfly]

Hey, getting out of Vegas is always a roll of the dice.

[brandonl]

ATC was being a prick for no reason, I’d just sit there with engines shut down and make it his problem when he needs you to move and you can’t…

[rydawg]

If you know there's delays, take extra fuel

[RealJackHQ]

I think the controller was just irritated not angry. Angry is when you get personal with the pilot or you want to send a pilot that special phone number. There’s bad weather and a bunch of planes waiting. We all turn into General Patton at times.