Theory of Mind - Uta Frith

Developmental psychologist Uta Frith on autism, social interaction, and the difference between mentalizing and empathy

[Leena]

I was recently diagnosed with Asperger's and I find the concept of theory of mind very confusing. Instead of not being able to instinctively figure out what other people are thinking, I usually come up with a million different versions of what they might be thinking, and I'm completely unable to figure out how to respond, because I don't know what they're after. I can tell a lie, but I most certainly don't like to, and I usually want to immediately make sure that my lie was a joke and I wasn't serious. I do have trouble knowing if other people are telling a lie, or saying something as a joke. I don't really like saying compliments unless I really think they're true, and I can be brutally honest, if I feel people are being stupid. But I feel, instead of not having a theory of mind, I have too much of it, and I get lost trying to find the correct answers.

[apotheticallyautistic]

This is why we are more prone to abuse and manipulation. It makes us more vulnerable

[myownnamemontoya]

Diagnosed with Autism at 77.. I spent my whole life with a question in my head. I have a genius level IQ and many gifts and talents., but I knew from the beginning of consciousness that I was not like others. Memories go back to infancy. I also am diagnosed with PTSD from infancy or possibly in utero. I was not blessed with parents.. missing father.. mother who did not want me and a lifetime of abuses of ever nature known to man... I am still suffering from abuse and trying to find a place in the world for me.. autistic artist and writer.. I have faith that an answer will come.
I enjoyed you very much and I'm looking for any information that can help me with the blind spots. I would love to know others that are in my place.. I am not an old old...lol.. my heart and mind are still all of me.. all of the child and everything else... and no, I don't lie although normal people seem to not believe that. It's cuz they do it all the time.

[alwellaufen]

As far as I know, I'm very atypical when it comes to Autism, I have been recommended to study Psychology and Social Studies and such, due to the fact I have a knack for telling people's thoughts and distinguishing lies.
Autism is an overarching term for changes in the Human mind, many of these changes impair certain areas and abilities in life, nonetheless some do allow for benefits, I remember that I refused to speak until I was 4, but then spoke in sentences, most likely I practiced when no one was listening.
Many things in my life I rejected or evaded, until one day I just started doing them.
It is rather fascinating that I have met many people with autism, yet no two people have ever been the same, some characteristics are similar, sometimes.
Nonetheless the Mind is far more complex then a simple diagnosis can explain.
I continue to follow developments in this community and have hopes of further developments thatbring more interesting discussion to the Table. :)

[fattyfat-dplj]

for most of my life, I grew up not even trying to consider what other people might be thinking. I assumed that other people would always reject and hate me, but I feel like that assumption stems from a lack of theory of mind and a lack of a fundamental understanding about other people. Only now after a lot of introspection do I truly realize that everyone in my life who has ever disliked me did so because of the way I was presenting myself rudely or because they were having a bad day. Every single awkward interaction I had was because I was presenting myself strangely. I failed to understand what other people were thinking and feeling, which has led me to be so judgmental and form caricatures of real life human beings. I feel like autism and this lack of theory of mind has completely disabled my ability to connect with other people in the past, so now I’m hoping that I can stay more present in the moment and truly try to understand what others might be feeling about me and my actions. ok bye

[abbiebarker]

i have autism and i have to write an essay on theory of mind for my degree, this video really helped as obviously i struggle to understand the idea of theory of mind haha

[MysteryGrey]

I always thought of myself as having integrity to not assume what someone means or is thinking. They have a mouth and that's what words are for, for them to explain themselves. I don't just assume. And if someone wants to tell me about how they think or feel, or about themselves, talk away, I want to hear it. I don't pry and be intrusive by asking personal questions. I can live without them telling me all kinds of things about themselves, but they ALWAYs dump their innermost secrets on me, sometimes right away. I always wondered why stranger's tell me their secrets. Little do they know that I already know their deepest insecurities if I've glanced into their eyes. The secrets they verbally tell me, I might repeat. But the mysteries I know by looking at their soul, I'll never divulge. If they're a narcissist, dark soul, I will do a reflection so the goo won't stick to me.

[Shoonam]

I think this has to do with attention problems. When I'm an observer, I can definitely theorize about why people are behaving how they are - I can focus better on nonverbal cues since I don't have to think about what l'm going to do or say. When I'm implicated in an interaction, I miss part of the signals. It's not an either you have it or you don't scenario. It's much more complex and varies between people on the spectrum.

[timmcdraw]

im autistic and I lie! I learned how to lie young, because I needed to in order to survive - small lies, lies about my feelings, my whereabouts, intentions, desires. I grew up in a deeply unstable, scary home. Now im 42 and I can still lie about those things- the "keeping the peace" kind of lies, which basically depends on my true self being hidden at all costs, and im still doing it to save my life, from a place of mistrust. However, if I were told I had to lie about a fact though, from my phone number to some historical fact, I find that EXTREMELY hard! The last time I lied about my phone number the only way I could do it was to write my real number out and painfully, hysterically even, switch one single number out for a random number, and even then my wife-at-the-time elbowed me and snapped "you need to be cool!" which is when I realized I was panicked and looking all over the room as if the lie police were going to come and get me.

[MaricaAmbrosius]

I don't believe it. I have this ability with other autistics. NTs only have ToM with other NTs.

[sbsman]

My greatest difficulty is arriving at Theory of Mind too early. A person might say something or avoid me then I may concoct a false reason clinging to it for dear life! Time to drag out that well used map again and figure it out,

[jacobrhodes]

This is amazing and I'll tell you why. These are things I've wrestled with for years.
i.e. autism is not quite how it is described in old texts. I've defined it and people
have said, oh no can't be autism, but it is.

[juliamosley]

Been looking into/learning about 'Theory of Mind' and found myself here watching this. Here are some of my basic thoughts on this video...

1) How can one suspect a theory didn't exist? Even when a theory starts to exist (comes out into the knowledge arena), that doesn't mean it's necessarily a functional reality. It's the result of a person or group of people within an area of research thinking of a new way to describe something, which, therefore reinforces an opportunity for continual research for other academics to then go on to find their own, new creative way of presenting that idea and any future related ideas, and so on.

She says it's not a theory, it's an intuition? If it's an intuition, an intuition that's so integral to humans interacting with each other, how would they come to suspect it didn't exist? Does she mean she suspected no-one would come up with such a term to describe a basic idea of what the mind is? It sounds a bit like dressing up intuition in pseudo-impressive language. We're given this confusing theory (it's confusing because it's attempting to complicate something simple) the gravitas of, I don't know, say, discovering the earth is round after years of thinking it was flat.

2) Why would people be wowed by a so-called 'theory of mind', that, simply put, is a phrase for thinking about the intentions, feelings and thoughts in people, by use of a specific collective term that's associated with the field of psychology? It reminds me of when a band has a great, memorable band name. It's great but it's a name, a label for what's already there. Same with 'Theory of Mind'. It's like they've just thought of a cool band name for the collective inside the brain. And there's even a support act (Mentalizing). This is all about words to me. Wordplay. Much of art, literature and music represents people and how they feel, think and behave, much of which prompts the mind to think about these things within itself and other minds. 'Theory of Mind' is in culture outside of psychology, only it doesn't assume an academic label in those contexts. Why is a fancy sounding theory being presented with such a sense of revere?

3) She says that 'theory of mind' is 'what we all have, us human beings' and then a few minutes later goes onto hypothesise that theory of mind is straight up 'missing' in Autistic people - what kind of message are we sending out here? I'd say that's a seriously problematic choice of wording. And she says something similar again later in the video 🤔.

4) The point about the biological basis: Yes, I agree, everything is made up of energy and matter - so, in the body, anything that goes on has a biological basis, unless the mind isn't in the body, ... well...that's a whole different debate...

5) Interesting point about 'contagion' idea in empathy.

6) On hearing the word 'Mentalizing', my mind makes a link to the 'mindfulness' concept of 'watching the thinker', as in, being able to observe one's own thoughts.

That's all I got at the moment 🤗

[teve]

Someone could very easily explain that theory of mind in humans is just a theory of egocentric self-interest giving us ability to form our own self in regard to other and pursue of own selfishness, it is a judgmental ability to differentiate "us" and "them" - in form of socially acceptable norms of behavior.

[hufficag]

I never considered thinking about what other people know or believe or want or opinions and stuff. If they have it in their mind they should say it out loud - they have a mouth! But with cats it's obvious what they want - if one cat is out wandering the room and another cat meows pleadingly inside the cage - it's jealous of the freedom, it wants to get out. What's so not obvious about it to the rest of the people? If the top gate is opened in the cage and the cat looks down and hesitates to jump from such a height because it's scary and might hurt its feet, you don't just say "oh you don't want to go out? Fine" and close the door. You help the cat out of the cage. It's easy to have theory of mind with animals, why is it so rare? And it's hard to have theory of mind with people because what they think is convoluted, they're scheming, they're lying, they're prejudiced, there's no way to take all that into account.

[DeepakKumar-owyx]

Having a lack of or delay in Theory of Mind can help a person with problem solving in a group context or not.

[ogzombiebreakfast]

I have to say this is equal parts infuriating and fascinating. I'm angry because what she is describing as "mentalizing" is essentially mind-reading, but at the same time it definitely isn't. It's assuming that you are able to read someone's thoughts based on their gestures and expressions. It's exactly this type of automatic, unconscious prejudice that causes so many problems for people. That is what makes it fascinating - she/they is/are on to something. But it isn't literal mind-reading, it is really just a pattern of guessing what other people are thinking by assuming that they must fit your stereotype of what normal thinking should be. And the reason it works for NTs is that it only creates problems when someone's thinking deviates from the norm. It's unfair, but it's true, I think.

[ivelinad]

Thank you, this video was a wonderful explanation and it was an absolute pleasure listening

[fionabyrne]

The way Dr Frith is speaking is suggesting that autistic people are not human. She says theory of mind is essential part of being human, and then that is lacking in autistic people. This is highly problematic.

Additionally, this has been disproved by Damien Milton with the double empathy problem. The double empathy problem suggests that it is simply that people have difficultly intuitively empathising outside of their neurotype. Autistic people can intuitively understand the mental states of autistic people. Similarly, understanding the autistic sensory experience is not innate for neurotypical people.

[rrose]

I'm autistic and I view my own mind like a chaotic storm of everything which forces me to limit how expressive I am because if I actually expressed my thoughts and feelings I would appear deranged and unstable. Nerotypicals are so lucky that they don't have to process all of the information they receive from the world consciously and can ignore personal responsibility.