Atheist Debates - Losing the Narrative

Based on one remark in my conversation with Jordan Peterson, I take a look at what it means to lose the narrative and why this fear-based argument isn't worth worrying about.

[sunmustbedestroyed]

I was/am extremely proud of Matt. He did such a great job during the discussion/debate with Jordan Peterson. I know he doesn't like when people have heroes/idols, but I couldn't help but think "damn, how much I admire this man".

[rhondashotwell]

We will lose art? Sounds like something you just throw out there when you don't know what else to say.

[Hecatonicosachoron]

The bit from 19:28 to 20:39 is absolutely brilliant! It really moved me. Thank you for expressing it so eloquently!
I just felt so peaceful after hearing this, it's such a wonderful and magnanimous way in which to acknowledge but also put aside the worries that we have as well as the worries of the "other side" so to speak.

[truthseekeratheist]

With regard to Jordan Peterson, I’ve listened to him in a variety of contexts now and what he says in one interview depends on who’s interviewing him and will often differ completely from what he’ll claim in another interview. When pointed out that what he’s just said on that occasion differs from what he said at another occasion he’ll vehemently deny his inconsistency and resort to suggesting that the person who called him out is simply stupid. Everything to him is complicated. I notice that women particularly get under his skin.

To Jordan there is nothing simple. Every matter is “complicated” or “complex.” Thus pointing out that the person or persons with whom is debating or discussing doesn’t understand what he’s talking about. His thoughts are at such a high level. These are clever ploys which Peterson uses to confuse issues and to keep from being pinned down. When interviewed by a woman I’ve heard him flat out deny that his following is largely comprised of young disenfranchised men, yet when a man interviewer makes the same observation Peterson acknowledges this is true and explains why young men are so frustrated and that he’s offering them a way out; a way to deal with the unfair world that men have to face because of political correctness.

He calls himself a scientist. Yet science seeks to find a simple set of rules that forms the basis of complexity. Occam’s razor is a key principle of the scientific method. But in every conversation I’ve ever heard from him he brings out how complex the world is and how he seems to be the only one who understands the complexity. He talks about not playing identity politics but he then contradicts himself by labeling people and groups using identifiers such as “ the celebrity atheist types” or “ the extremist liberal types” and a variety of other “ types” he will recognize and categorize in his mind.

What ultimately I’m getting at is that Jordan Peterson is always shifting always changing like shifting sands. You can’t critique him because his points shift from one context to another. One of his colleagues noted that attempting to critique Peterson is like “trying to nail Jelly to a cloud.” Then when you criticize Peterson for exactly this point, his followers jump on you, call you stupid and not intellectually sophisticated enough to understand the depth of his knowledge. Sometimes Peterson will say something that sounds reasonable, but then he’ll completely contradict himself at another time.

No scientific understanding of the universe was gained using a metaphysical or metaphorical narrative. Science the one process through which an accurate description of reality is gained. William Shockley did not invented the transistor on the basis of Nietzsche or Religious Ontology. He used quantum mechanics as the theoretical description of reality to build a real working device that has become sooo important in building computers and such key devices as IPhones and tablets etc.

[stephysteph]

10:30 that is a very limited reading of the complex emotions portrayed in Crime and Punishment.

[monsterram]

JBP speaks entirely metaphorically. His arguments are essentially one giant equivocation.

[doingear]

It's funny because Jordan Peterson has broken down the narratives of disney movies like Pinochio and The Lion King in order to point out the important moral topics of the films. He doesn't discuss whether the disney characters are real or not, but swears that they are the most important stories in history. It's like he's eating his own tail!

[carrieshaw]

I'm an actor who's an atheist... Art isn't going anywhere.

[scottwills]

"...our reactionary minds, inventing fears because we're terrified of what might happen if the world changes". - Well said Matt.

[sbushido]

I wonder what Peterson would think about the "Darmok" episode of Star Trek: TNG. Because there are times when I can't help but think he wants to be the Tamarian captain, talking in nothing but metaphor...and doesn't want to acknowledge that it's the meaning behind the metaphors, and not the metaphors themselves, that are important.

[Gumikrukon]

The letting go of Dumbo is going to be the undoing of the west.
One day you will remember my words...

[MartinIsRunning]

A theistic coworker told me to go look up Jordan Peterson, and then I will understand religion. I told him to look up Matt Dillahunty, and he said that he wasn’t interest in learning why we deny god. It’s absolutely amazing.

[jaygerlach]

I would love a round 2, Matt.
Talking precisely about this topic, but done in a good will non combative manner.
I value much of Dr. Peterson's work. This is one area where I diverge with him. Especially needing a spiritual encounter to quit a specific vice /addiction

[biostemm]

To borrow a term I've heard you use before, Peterson is a living "deepity" - he says things that, on first glance, sound significant and meaningful, but upon further investigation, he makes baseless assertions and plays games with colloquial definitions of words and his hyper-specific, personal meanings of them...

[toddlazarus]

This is really interesting, especially in the context of literary studies. Peterson ought to do more investigation into how we interact with texts and what they do to and for us.

[chloupichloupa]

Peterson is just the best example of an atheist who seems afraid of being an atheist. The guy is desperately holding onto anything that could let him keep his belief in god, it's astonishing. When your best argument for why we should keep believing in god is because otherwise we'll lose art... I mean, what the hell...

[mikeisapro]

Thanks for these thoughts. Clarity is a value.

[borisnikolic]

Wonderful video, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us Matt.

[Autists-Guide]

Excellent analysis. Matt, you're getting quite good at this. :)

[billygundum]

A phrase I like to use.
"Just cause a story is not true doesn't mean it holds no truth".