Major Advances with Heat Pumps in the Extreme Cold

Video script and citations:

Get my achieve energy security with solar guide:

Looking to buy a heatpump (US - MA, CO, and FL)?

Follow-up podcast:

Join the Undecided Discord server:

👋 Support Undecided on Patreon!

⚙️ Gear & Products I Like

Visit my Energysage Portal (US):
Research solar panels and get quotes for free!

And find heat pump installers near you (US):

Or find community solar near you (US):

For a curated solar buying experience (Canada)
EnergyPal's free personalized quotes:

Tesla Referral Code:
Get 1,000 free supercharging miles
or a discount on Tesla Solar & Powerwalls

👉 Follow Me
Mastodon

X

Instagram

Facebook

Website

📺 YouTube Tools I Recommend
Audio file(s) provided by Epidemic Sound

TubeBuddy

VidIQ

I may earn a small commission for my endorsement or recommendation to products or services linked above, but I wouldn't put them here if I didn't like them. Your purchase helps support the channel and the videos I produce. Thank you.

[KerrikkiLurgan]

My sister had a heat pump installed about four years ago. Last month, in our area of Canada, we had a temperature drop of -25c for a couple of days. Her heat pump is her main source of heat. She has never had an issue with getting heat.

[northwind]

I spent about 1 1/2 years working on a 'ski shack' that was heated by two large geothermal heat pumps, fed by a single vertical well. In the winter, there was a thick layer of frost on any section of the fluid pipes in the mechanical room where there were gaps in the insulation, including where the 'warm' fluid came out of the ground. Even though the source fluid was well below freezing, the three-story building was kept very comfortable.

[jasonwidegren]

I installed a geothermal hvac system 3 years ago and it has been flawless. We live in the Denver area with temperatures down to -20 F. Obviously, with the geothermal setup, cold weather doesn’t affect the performance so it does fine in winter. What I’ve been most surprised by is how great it is at air conditioning and how cheap it is to cool the house in summer. It costs next to nothing to keep the house in the mid to upper 60s in the summer (our bedrooms are all upstairs and I sleep better when it’s cool). Overall a great investment.

[paul]

Matt, I have been using ground sourced geo-thermal (liquid to air) systems for the past twenty three years. The first system was a WaterFurnace (pump and dump) that was installed in 2000 and is still operational today. The second system installed was a HydroDelta in another new build that finally gave up the ghost last spring after sixteen years of operation. My replacement unit is a WaterFurnace again. This unit is far superior to the unit installed in 2000 and is 50% more efficient than it’s predecessor (HydroDelta). Even with energy prices being more expensive than when we built our home seventeen years ago, our monthly bills are half of what we were paying two years ago. We are heating and cooling exclusively with the geothermal system, our bills range from $ 108.00 to $ 238.00, our home is 4, 200 sqft. We are not passive home certified nor compliant, though we removed as much of the thermal bridging we could.
Always like your content! Keep up the good work. Paul

[MCP]

Convinced my parents to switch from propane to a pair of mini-split heat pumps at the start of this winter and it reduced their monthly heating cost by about half. Payback on the cost of install is going to be about 6 years, though probably a little less than that, but we don't have solid numbers for summer cooling vs the old terribly installed central air-conditioning that the mini-splits are also taking the place of.

[Nikiaf]

I live in Canada, so days of -20C or colder are not a freak occurrence; and yet our house is heated and cooled exclusively with a heat pump. The one that was installed when the house was built in 2000 struggled when the temperatures dipped below -5 or so, but the new one is able to push out air that's even warmer than what the old auxiliary furnace did on the really cold days (previously had a dual energy setup due to the inherent limitations of last-gen heat pumps). We've reached a point in the technological advancements where there's really no good reason why every new construction building doesn't have a heat pump as the entire HVAC solution.

[gemeilimeio]

My parents installed a vertical one around two years ago here in the Swiss mountains. Together with our solar panels our house is now basically self sufficient and both the heat pump and the panels have worked fine in the two years even during cold days in winter

[northwoodsguy]

I have had an open loop heat pump since 2005. Works great. Most issues I have had are with the water well that supplies the ground water which is where you get your heat. Properly constructed closed ground loops will prevent those issues but add costs. Once I figured out all the issues using the open loop it works great. It really comes down to maintenance on the open loop side and tricks to make it easier to deal with.

[travisdudley]

I had a Fujitsu cold climate heat pump installed at my place in northern Vermont back in 2017. I have had days where it's been well below -20°F and it ran fine. The temperatures where it has the most trouble is when it's around freezing with a high relative humidity. That's really the only time I notice it because it has to go into the defrost cycle fairly frequently. The only other times I have a problem is when a tree takes out the power but I hope to get solar and batteries to deal with that at some point.

[freddunaway]

I had an cold weather, air source heat pump installed in my house last fall and I live in New York State's North Country where we routinely have weeks with a high of 0F. My heating bill went from ~$2, 800/ year to ~$1100/year. So far, no problems with the heat pump keeping up. And I now have central AC at no additional installation costs. Yes, heat pumps work in the cold weather.

[deanhall]

Hello Matt, I noticed one big draw back you missed but might not effect the US market as much. Most heat pumps water flow temps normally max about 50°C rather than the traditional 70-80°C. This mean on a wet system with radiators the rads output is halved but the reduced flow temp. This leads to most homes needing to install massive radiators to achieve the same output needed to overcome the houses steady state heat lose. This can add a massive cost to the install unless you have a new modern well insulated house designed with a low flow temp in mind.
The other thing that is missed is price per unit for each type of fuel. If the COP of a boiler is 0.9 and the heat pump is 2.5, but gas is 1/3 the cost of electric then it is still cheaper to run a boiler than a heat pump. Not very eco but still something to consider when waying up the facts. Hope this helps

[tyriddik]

Could you do a follow up video that focuses on air sourced heat pumps? Additionally talk about the potential installation savings that may be had when living in more mild climates and replacing a current ac/furnace combo.

[Mjln]

Matt, you really need to more clearly address the differences between air-source heat pumps versus ground-source heat pumps.

[AlecMuller]

We installed mini-split air-sourced heat pumps last fall, and have been heating with a combination of wood + mini-splits this winter (in NH). Getting a smaller system (sized for cooling, not heating) saved on up-front costs. Our mini-splits are rated down to 5F, and are great without wood down to about 25F. I doubt we'll need supplemental wood once we re-insulate and re-side.

[AK_Vortex]

I have a air-based heat pump by Daiken and the upfront installation was around $15K fully installed with insulated ducting. It's everything Matt says they are here. Very low maintenance, and considerably quiet. Down side? When it falls below 10 degrees here in Alaska, it does struggle a little to keep our home temp which we like at 68 degrees. So we supplement that heat with a pellet stove. I burn through maybe 10 bags (40lb ea) of pellets a year on cold years, less on not so cold years. But the challenge for us is not it becoming too cold, it occurs around 31-34 degrees which causes massive ice buildup within the unit. I bought a handheld pressure steamer to deal with that when it gets bad. Overall, it's my favorite way to heat where I live and it doesn't stress my energy bill out at all.

[chrisdenson]

Matt,

My heat pump stopped working last month. So this video was very helpful. Two things stood out: 1) newer heat pumps are able to work at lower outside temps, and 2) there will be rebates available to help with the cost.

I'm especially interested in the IRA rebates you mentioned, and I've tried to find out more about them before watching your video, but the DOE website is not clear when they will be available ... or if they will be retroactive for systems installed this year before the money is released to the states. I'd really appreciate your help in finding out.

Since the repair cost would be $4-5000 and since it is 18 years old, I think it's best that I replace it. So I've been on an HVAC crash course ... and in the process I learned about this rebate program and about tax credits (for 16+ SEER systems) I have delayed having a new system installed; so hopefully I can take advantage of this rebate. I could really use the help, since estimates range from $10 - $14, 000! In my income bracket the rebate would be 50% of the cost up to $8000.

I can wait a while longer, but I need to have something done before summer.

Thanks for your help!

[StrifeA]

My aunt has had geothermal for over 30 years, you freeze in the summer and sweat during the winter, the only time they ever used additional heating was when it dropped below -30 for about two weeks straight in the ohio river valley. I have always planned for geothermal heating and cooling when I get around to having a house built.

[gthm]

Big fan of the channel. As far as heat pumps: I spent 15 years in a rattle wagon installing & servicing HVAC equipment from residential to industrial. I then moved to and currently in systems integrations/building automation dealing with a LOT of HVAC and energy equipment for the past 10 years. Not all heat pumps are created equal. The majority of residential heat pumps are air source (like a standard air cooled residential AC). This leaves the heat pump impacted by a number of factors but in particular outdoor air temperature. The hotter it is outside the harder the unit must work and the same is true with the colder it gets outside. The further below freezing or above 90F air source begins having issues. For heating you have to consider the energy efficiency of the unit, snowfall, defrost cycle, and how cold winters average in your area (specifically days below 20F) - there is a point that switching to auxiliary/emergency heat be it electric resistance heater, hot water coil, gas fired becomes increasingly required for cost and comfort. The biggest complaint from new air sourced heat pump owners always claimed in the winter when they first tried heating with one - "the air coming out of my vents isn't very warm" ... depending on the air source heat pumps age, efficiency, sizing, install, condition, etc. the supply air temperature will be traditionally cooler than that provided by an electric or gas fired furnace - with the heat pump working correctly. Average life of typical residential air source heat pumps - if you get 15 years you're doing great. I had an air source heat pump that lasted 30 years - I however did my own maintenance & repairs and could get parts & refrigerant at cost - at about 18 years the amount of maintenance & repairs began ramping up quite rapidly. The "efficiency" & cost savings MYTH that sales people in the HVAC industry use to up sell their customers ... You will never reach those numbers by just swapping out an old system for a newer more efficiently rated system. Why? a typical residential single family home is wildly inefficient for infiltration - if you're not going to upgrade your insulation, air barriers, windows, thermal bridges, etc. then paying for a high end air source heat pump you'll never see the savings promised or have the unit pay itself off in the time claimed - your house is still leaking and energy costs just keep increasing. The only heat pump I would buy, & have plans to have installed in 2024, is a closed loop ground source (geothermal) system. When sizing you can't just take current weather/climate - you need to look at projections for what summers & winters are likely to be like over the life of the system to meet those demands ... the upfront price is eye watering - but if you pay all that money for something sized for today it may meet demands for the next few years but be completely inadequate in 5 - 10 years. Will all your heating and cooling inside your home be provided by forced air? Will heating be provided by in floor radiant heat? Baseboard radiant heat? If heat provided by forced air will you have aux/emergency heat installed in case the heat pump goes down? How old and efficient is your hot water heater? Will you replace the HWH and have it connected to the geothermal?

[russellintahoe]

I lived in Breckenridge, CO and I had a split unit mainly for summers. I used it to augment my hydronic floors. It always blew hot hair when I needed it which would be on cold mornings. We often got -20 to 0 weather. I love that you can run them in reverse!

[dailyreader]

I installed a cold air heat pump in fall 2021. I live in southern Ontario Canada. In addition I improved the insulation in my basement. I used closed cell spray foam on the interior of the foundation concrete walls. The previous insulation was a combination of pink fibreglass and foam board. I can’t give a precise breakdown of my current electrical bill as I have an electric water heater and electric car charger and clothes dryer. However my highest electricity cost on a 30 period in winter has been $264 Canadian. Generally between April to October my electric cost has ranged between $110 to $165. I cannot account for the heat savings for getting rid of my direct vent gas water heater which used heated inside air for burning the gas. One important benefit is that we keep our house at 70 deg F for 24 hours/day 7 days a week. So for me I cannot say enough good about it. My model is a Mitsubishi Hi2 model. The outside unit is almost silent particularly when on air conditioning mode. I got a $5000 Cdn Greener Homes grant on this install.