What is a CNC Router Vacuum System Table and How Does It Work

Welcome to this CNC router video tutorial about vacuum tables, and about how does a vacuum table work, or even what is a vacuum table for and how to enhance their hold-down power!

In this episode, you may find that your CNC router vacuum pump is just fine, that it may be your setup. We dive into vacuum mats that revolutionize the effectiveness of your vacuum table. Our focus will be on the exceptional vacuum mat from All Star CNC. To put it to the test, we'll be using the Phantom CNC router by Phantom CNC Systems, along with two router bits from IDC Woodcraft: "The BEAST," a groundbreaking roughing CNC router bit, and the 1.5-inch ultra-smooth surfacing bit. Prepare for the phenomenal results achieved in this comprehensive experiment.

Throughout our testing, the vacuum mat proved to be a game-changer, significantly boosting the suction capability of vacuum tables, such as on the Phantom CNC router. Even when subjected to aggressive cutting on a hardwood like Maple, the vacuum mat held its ground admirably. We were thrilled to witness the vacuum mat withstand the forces exerted upon it, providing an unrivaled level of stability and hold-down power.

One common question regarding MDF on vacuum tables is, can you pull a vacuum through MDF.. MDF is porous and a vacuum can be pulled through it. In this video, we will discuss how to ensure the most effective way to utilize MDF for a CNC router vacuum table.

All-Star CNC Products page w/ vacuum mat ↓

Or call 253-320-1211 for more information regarding Phantom CNC routers. Tell then Garrett says hello!

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***Use this discount code (SURFACING BIT)

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Garrett Fromme

[barryjohnson]

Excellent demonstration! I have been using the ALL STAR gasket and mat for 6 months. Very impressed. For smaller parts I add strips around the piece to decrease any linkage from exposed mat. Really helps.

[dtwerking]

Interesting solution that gives me some ideas, thanks.

The real issue is the rule of thumb is 1.4HP per sq ft of vaccuum zone is needed to produce 15lb/sq in of downforce through MDF. Salespeople like to sell 2.2kw (3HP) pumps and say they will work fine, proved here as not so fine. People can't run 10HP pumps in a small shop of home likely anyway. Thats the rule of thumb for larger work, smaller stuff you need to double or triple it.

I do a lot of cut through and sure I can be really careful and cut almost through but then I have to pay employees $40/ hr to finish it which is costly. The other option is damage the surface more and that turns a $100 spoilboard resurfaced 10 times into $2000 and a number of hours of labor, too costly of a solution.

I think this is an awesome solution for folks that do not cut through or do not cut through often. To be cost effective speed is needed in my case and our cut through is typically 1/64" (0.4mm) which is likely the compressed thickness of the foam gaskets (1/32" uncompressed).

Yes I let a salesperson talk me into a 2.2kw as adequate knowing very well it was not. But they threw it in for free basically because I refused to beleive them. I won't even hold paper down and allow you to tear it lol.

I have been looking at a different far less costly way, no idea if it will work but this concept gives it more merit. Lay a sheet of hardboard (sometimes called pegboard) with the textured side up on the spoilboard. maybe cut grooves in the MDF and through holes into the airbox to reduce restriction on the airflow. Would only need light tacking to hold in place and have similar abilities maybe. It wouldn't have the rubber like hold force or as much but would not increase the costs of resurfacing as hardboard is cheap, 10 hardboards are maybe 40% more expencive then 1 MDF spoilboard sheets. Could even spray it with a light coat of a rubberized coating. Might be able to surface it a few times but also may be more effective to just replace it (assuming its constant thickness). If it is constant thickness and the MDF is surfaced then no surfacing will be needed.

Since I seen comments, I used butcher paper to block unused area, newspaper doesn't work well and I don't think its printed much anymore anyway. Butcher paper lasts forever and is cheap, flat and in rolls of long lengths.

[efishnc]

Thanks Garret. Just going to start running an big cnc machine ( ha ha) well bigger than the longmill (which i still love) with vacuum table . I have been researching and know about sealing the sides.(they also recommend surfacing both sides of a new MDF board to increase porosity getting past any sealers) Brand new area to me and look forward to your further insight and I will share mine as well. CNCr's stay united. ha ha. Congrats on the new machine!!
I also appreciate the history of the scissors, that's why we love ya!! your real!!

[ALLSTARCNCPRODUCTS]

For those reading and writing comments, allow me to illuminate the science and physics that make the Tile Gaskets so effective. It has little to do with the size and CFM capability of any vacuum pump, and much more to do with the strength of the pull. For those commenting about covering up the surface area of the non-work surface on the spoilboard, that is down-drafting, which is nonefficient and far less effective when compared with vacuum clamping. A true vacuum clamp requires a small sealed cavity or chamber under the part or material where the air is evacuated creating a negative air differential below the part compared to the air pressure above the part. The Tile Gaskets accomplish this with their perforations. The gasket material seals up to the material and the holes become very powerful suction cups. In a production environment where the same part is processed over & over, we use dedicated jigs using non-porous material. For those doing work where the material, size, and dimensions change, or you need quick work without engineering a jog, the Tile Gaskets are a game changer. They become the new spoil surface rather than the MDF board. They are engineered and designed to be cut into, so no more tabs or onion skins to hold your parts, and our clients are processing with single passes due to their hold strength. Maintaining an accurate z-depth is important so as not to gauge through them preserving their effective life. Our clients use the same set for hundreds of production hours before fly-cutting them off and reapplying a new layer.

[thisoldman]

Love your videos Garrett. Not sure if the expense would be worth having to replace it after a dozen projects. Profile cuts would eat it up pretty quick. I’ve seen a video using news paper on the unused portion of the vac table to concentrate the vacuum where it’s needed. It seemed to help. I personally have not tried it though.

[scratchbuiltdesigns]

The nature of vac holding is that you take away the pressure on the bottom side, and the atmospheric pressure pushes the work piece down. So no matter what pump you have, 14.7 psi downforce is all you ever get. The lateral force, however, is a function of the static friction between the vac table and the work piece. An MDF spoilboard is prone to collect a fine layer of dust which significantly reduces this friction. That is why your work pieces glide so well over the bare spoilboard, not the fact that you have some open space in the suction area.
If you covered all the free area around the maple beam, it would still have a poor lateral holding force.
That is where the rubber mat shines. There is a reason, why it has an adhesive on one side. Also, the rubber will compensate tiny imperfections in the work piece underside, which might cause poor suction as well.
A thin fleece foil will do the same trick (like a Datron VacuCard). In fact it is even better, because it does not block 85% of the suction area. And it has the benefit of easy removal.
Does the rubber and adhesive gum up your endmills when you make a through cut?
How easy does it peal off again, when you feel the need to change it?
A 1/2" or even 5/8" MDF spoilboard might be convenient, but I see more cons than pros.
I use MDF often on the vac table, especially when making through cuts. But mostly 3mm thin, same size as the work piece and the vacuum sealed with foam rubber cord directly below the surface area of the work piece. That setup has excellent holding forces and I can make clean -1mm through cuts without tape, glue etc. messing up my end mill

[JoeLazzara]

Holy shit!!! 🤯🤯 That BEAST is no joke. It cut through that maple like it was pine lol.
And you sure did work the kinks out of the vacuum situation because I sure as hell couldn't move that board either. 😄
Great video, Brother. 👍

[tommyers]

I have seen people have good results by covering a zone with a page (or pages) from a newspaper and then placing their stock on the paper

[kgkessler]

Great video. Covered a lot, and well. I was a firefighter as well, in New York. I understand exactly what you were saying about memories, and feelings, that stay with you. …and I like the background music concept, as long as your dance moves match the rhythm 😂

[AngieWilliamsDesigns]

Geez! The beast definitely lives up to it's name.

[larryknavel]

Test the beast on the Long Mill. Lot of us have desktop CNC machines.

[wfej]

That's pretty impressive Garret !! I just got a new (to me) a "CNC One" 1 meter X 1meter" machine made in Germany and I thought it was a "beast" but what I just saw there mine is a panzzy !! lol..

[SRBrown]

I liked the music, I think the whistling is my favorite. I loved how informative and detailed the whole thing was (thanks for enduring the dust!). I have a suggestion about the seal on the vac board. Instead of a simple butt joint how about a sort of half dovetail, vertical cut? That would allow for some longitudinal movement with less compromising of the seal.

[ronjamison]

Wow! I had no idea MDF was that porous. We have a vacuum CNC router from Forest Scientific that hasn't worked for years, so I'm told. I have asked if I can take it on as a project to get it working, vacuum system an all. The materials you got from All-Star CNC sounds exactly what we'll need to get this thing working. Thanks for the demo and the info! BTW, that Beast is one hell of a bit. Impressive. Probably a little too much for my small projects. Thanks again!

[mpakirk]

Great information, Thanks! I just purchased an “Airweights” 24”x24” vacuum table for my Laguna iq 2x3, They have the pads for about $5 cheaper than all star. Also, what were makers using to get their vacuum tables to work prior? After all my research on vacuum tables your video was news to me, especially the side sealing.

[charlietuna]

Nice addition with the All-Star pads. The only problem I see is you won't be doing any through profile cuts.

[mr.Bruutt]

Wow that 1 inch pass is sick !! nice bit !!
Also the music is nice, and not too loud ! so, i think you can continu with that haha.
I was wondering, does the vacuum system use a lot of electricity ? i'm always a bit afraid for that, as the machines already use a lot of it the runnig cost with increase maybe ?

[OriginalJetForMe]

I prefer the ambient sounds, sped up to match the time lapse, to music.

[louisdeschamps]

I wounder if it would be possible to make a vacuum systeme using such mate and the mk-2 router ? I think it could work ! Great video Garrett !

[Zeix]

We use only a 4mm thick MDF on the vacuum table, very strong vacuum. Busellato EASY JET CNC.