Q&A: The Science of Psychedelics - with Michael Pollan

What's the best way of administering medicines to a large group of people? Can you be tripping and doing science at the same time? Michael Pollan answers audience questions following his talk.

Michael Pollan is a bestselling author of books on human nature and nutrition. In mid-life, he turned his attention to one of the most intriguing stories of the 20th century; the scientific promise and cultural burial of psychedelic research and its renaissance today in the public conversation around mental health, palliative care, addictive behaviours and a loss of personal meaning and connection in modern societies.

The Q&A was hosted by Dr Robin Carhart-Harris, Head of Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London.

This talk and Q&A session was filmed in the Ri on 11 June 2018.

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[JJBLOOM]

RI is totally underrated. The amount of interesting Information is astounding.

[mikerausch]

Been mircodosing for 2 months now, and my mood everyday is substantially better, depression has been non existent. This is the key to a better world for those who struggle with mental issues and we need to change our perception of psychedelics

[sedunk]

I could listen to Pollan speak for hours.

[enriqueo]

"Love is the most important thing in this world" but more than likely also throughout our conscious universe/existence! ❤🙏🏽✊🏽

[captainyossarian]

I see the clampdown and fear of psychedelics as a manifestation of the ego out of control. The ego realizes the danger to itself in these substances and the infinitely objective experiences they relate, and reacts accordingly with fear, paranoia, and hysteria.

[HYPERC]

Ayahuasca is legal in Brazil when practiced as part of a Shamanic Ritual. Those who wish to have the experience can but do, not only under monitored guidance, but also under a strict rule of respect - making no noise, no speaking, and most importantly, not interrupting anybody else's experience. Having had this experience myself, i can attest that it doesn't matter whether you attribute the trip to a divine spirit or to the mechanics of neural assemblies, the experience is undeniably profound and the observations and realisations that you have are clear and stay with you. DMT (ayahuasca), unlike LSD, does not have any averse come down, hangover or sense of fragmentation. It shold be noted that DMT is remarkably different to LSD or Psilocybin. Done in the right setting (in this case a Shamanic Institute with 100 other people) it is a safe and positive experience. There is no 'religion' in these communties. These are people of all types who come together for one common good - Lady Ayahusaca. As an atheist, my experience was no different to cristians. We just named them differently. In The US and Australia, they call a Lorry a truck :)

[spiritwave]

It's nice to see a mature discussion about psychedelics at the prestigious Royal Institution. It's important to note that cannabis is a psychedelic capable of producing seriously powerful psychological impact (e.g. slamming into multiple concentrates), so I disagree that the models of public impact should be different between cannabis and other psychedelics. To reinforce that disagreement, LSD and so on can be taken in very mild dosages that most slightly deviate from sobriety, so the usage risk is minimal. I believe the bottom line is the safety of these drugs comes from the quality of public education -- something unacceptably hindered by demonstrably purely destructive law. There's literally no concrete evidence proving any public benefit from the war on drugs, so intelligence and civility in effect demands an immediate end to that war against countless non-rights-infringing people.

[r.b.]

Let's change our relationship with drugs to become more healthy and reasonable.

[animistchannel]

I'd like to applaud both speakers for recognizing the deep history and competence of traditional systems and cultural models for dealing with these pathworkings. I would also like to point out that such things can be and are done without the "crutch molecules." It takes more time and effort, but the results are achieved more evolutionarily with less variability or risks of unfavorable side-effects and distractions. Building it as a skill set results in a stronger foundation more integrated with daily experience, as behavioral/perceptual enrichment and not just a shock treatment.

The overall educational practice approach allows a person to expand incrementally from where they actually, with the opportunity to integrate each level and region of perception and transformation along the way. The best development is built upon clarity and exploration rather than just being overrun by weirdness. The weirdness will still come along as a natural consequence of learning to understand and personalize the true nature of the interconnectedness of Nature.

Most shamanic practitioners will tell you: "You don't belong anywhere you can't get on your own, " although in some cases or for non-practitioners, sometimes a little guided boost from these substances can at least give the novice a taste of what will later be a persistent realization. This requires discernment in all its applications.

[zcgujge]

I am not a neuroscientist or a PhD, but I feel like addressing the person's question at 14:30 - on keeping the "world as it reveals itself" under the "scientific lens."

If I understand him correctly, the questioner states explaining "revelations about ourselves simply as manifestations of a different frame of neural activity" is "scientifically untroubling" but a psychedelic-produced belief in the reality of god or transcendence leading to transformation is troubling to science.

My response is that if what we mean by a materialist, scientific understanding is a correlative understanding between neural activity and subjective experience, I don't think one even needs to invoke this particular conundrum produced by psychedelics - because everyday consciousness poses the same exact problem under the scientific paradigm. How do molecules on the tongue give way to an experience of taste? How does a melody become an experience of sadness? In short, how does anything observed to be outside of ourselves actually happen inside our minds? The neural correlates to these various states may have been mapped, sure, but here, one can pose the same question: how do those specific neural movements, giving rise to a conscious and personal experience, fit our mold of science when nowhere in those movements is the experience ever revealed?

The way I see it, the problem really isn't "personal revelation" versus "god revelation." (Neither is "scientific".) The problem is third-person versus first-person. How will the third-person eye of the scientific enterprise ever successfully bring under its lens the definitive first-person phenomenon of consciousness? Is that even theoretically plausible?

I feel the challenge the questioner is invoking is just another way of describing that old, fundamental problem of science - the hard problem of consciousness - highlighted by the particular eccentricities of psychedelics.

[satorimystic]

Perhaps these substances are somehow blurring the line between conscious and subconscious, allowing things that would normally escape, or be ignored by, our conscious awareness, suddenly become seemingly new, re-realized, and subsequently creating a better understanding of our perceptions, etc., and a better appreciation of life.

[stevephillips]

Yes. These things need to be studied! Good work, keep it up.

[marianomontiel]

Please let Robin talk!!! He is really knowledgable, should have had more time to speak

[trocarcat]

If everyone felt that they were just a part of a living "universe" like a finger is a part of your body, I think they'd be more likely to protect, cooperate, share, enhance each other, rather than tearing down, separating and hurting the other. When you feel there is no true division between you and "not you", it becomes much more difficult to cause harm. When you see that life and death are 2 sides of reality more than a beginning or end of anything, .. Of course, in the world at large, the only value of life is how much wealth it creates for the already wealthy... Until we lose this disgusting paradigm, all the awesome insights available will be useless. With a guide, or "sitter", with the proper mindset/goal, there is the potential of a real mystical, life-changing glimpse into a different world. It is NOT a party drug, it is a gateway to another reality, uncoloured by our "rules and expectations" It is a means of realizing that we can comprehend the 'incomprehensible' (if not explain it in words that can only describe the mundane. .). I have thought for a long while, that certain psychedelics would be indispensable for those facing agonizing pain, impending death, depression...as it not only mitigates, but destroys fear of death, offers a very real temporary escape from the body, illustrates the connectedness between all that is, the value of the life we know, ego is dissolved and you realize that even without your body, without your name, without your history, . You Are and you have always been, and what you previously considered "you" "your life" "your family" "your problems" are just you. There is no other. Death, where is thy sting?

[AAJJCCSS]

7.30mins - discussion ref therapy, people 'trapped in stories', the 'stickiness' of change
11.30 - c.1000 people tried in modern era, with 0 adverse side effects so far
19.30 that the world and our mental lives is so much vaster than previously imagined

[lorenzovillegas]

The psychological risk is facing the fear people carry their entire lives. The hospitals are filled with people who hurt themselves on alcohol everyday… psychedelics are less likely to lead people into dangerous situations. People are already inherently dangerous… psychedelics might just help them slow down and become more aware.

[SimonSozzi]

Great starting question! Fight the man!

[sandrag]

Can't we take a look to the Netherlands, where magic mushroom growkits and some kinds of psychedelic fungus are legal for addults?
Are there many accidents?
Does it affect society in a bad way. I have not heard about it yet.

[robinwillson]

Poor dr. Robin Carhart-Harris.. no mention anywhere.. :'(

[RobG]

USA and New Zealand are the only two countries where direct to consumer advertising of pharmaceuticals is allowed.
How different would it be if pharmaceuticals, like tobacco, were no longer advertised?