Modern MTB Sizing vs Old School: How have things changed? - Hardtail Party

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[hardtailparty]

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[majoromg]

I feel like hardtail party talks about a lot of stuff that big magazines and channels leave untouched, such as sizing procedere and what not. Stuff, that actually is of great importance, but just not as exciting.

[igorgoga]

I watched your video on new school riding with elbow forward and chin over stem- OMG, it made all the difference

[ryangriffiths]

I like the channel, it’s a combination between weekend warrior riding type of riders and riders with children. Meaning riders with lives. It’s great 👍

[WrexBass]

While I quarantine bike shop this information has been extremely helpful and insightful as I try to upgrade from my almost 20yr old hard tail to something newer and more modern.

[Petr]

I am 186 cm and I ride reach 470 on my enduro and DH bikes both and I love it. I also bought dirtjump bike to improve my jump technique and I found the longest one on the market with reach 440 which is really great to feel confident on that short type of bike....Also makes it easy to switch between DJ and endruo/DH bikes I can adjust myself in a minute.

[Dieterbe]

The main issue I have with long / modern geo bikes is the increased reach means I have a reduced range of motion because my arms didn’t get any longer . Specifically I can’t push the front wheel as deep into throughs.

[mackturtle]

I am 5'9" and my last frame had a 440mm reach and I used a 50mm stem. it felt HUGE and I could never get used to it after a year. It was actually painful and crash-prone no matter where I put the dropper post, the handlebar positions, and no matter how hard to worked to adapt my stance. I had two professional "fit" sessions with different shops and they made it worse by putting a longer stem on it.
My current frame that replaced it has a much, much shorter reach and I use the same short stem. I fear that with the growing length of bikes these days I literally won't be able to buy another bike that fits my in the future. what's wrong with me?

[khansen]

I just read an article about how reach numbers between different bikes can be missleading as well. That you have to look at the stack height as well. A bike with a higher stack and shorter reach can be very similar to a bike with longer reach/shorter stack depending on how many spacers you put under your bars and how much rise your bars have. It also touched on how geometry numbers for a hardtail should not be compared to geometry numbers of a full suspension since the numbers are static and on a full suspension you generally run more sag in the rear than the front making everything slacker when riding and opposite for hardtails.

[claytonmarkin]

Other people have mentioned it, but you are the only channel covering technical stuff like the importance of positioning and how sizing has changed.

[davidmaskew]

Very good topic and something not covered enough in my opinion. I've returned to mountain biking last year after around 20 years either not riding or on skinny tyres. Although I've always kept an eye on what's going on in MTB I found the new geometry quite hard to figure out made worse by the fact that I seem to fall exactly between small and medium frame size on many manufacturers size charts. In the end I went medium but it took me a while to make up my mind and there never seemed to be much guidance on it.
Oh and yes, it's an hardtail.

[yo_marc]

Watching this gave me a flashback to getting sized for my ‘98 Trek 8000SL. The salesman did the 1-2” lift thing and that was that! Never mind the laid out 110mm stem ;)

[brassmnky]

Dropper post changed the game. Made DH style geo possible for trail bikes.

[chameleonpogono]

Brings back memories. I rode Trek and Gary Fisher back in the 80's and 90's. I rode smaller frames back then. "Felt" better since I rode the BMX type bikes. Got accustomed to throwing the bikes around on trails. Hard for me to ride some modern bikes cause it feels like I'm driving a tank. The Yeti SB165 is a good example. Super stable bike going downhill, but I just can't get comfortable on it cause it just feels too big.

[dimc]

Crazy how a few cm can change the feel of the bike. I looked at the geo's for my two bikes and noticed that there was a 30mm difference in stack height which becomes noticeable on the lower stack bike on long rides. I'm learning a lot from your videos. Thanks!!

[SEZ]

I use a combo of 2 measurements.

1) reach, for standing

2) effective top tube, for when I am seated.

The reasoning is this. I have a min and max reach for me 465-500 with an ideal in the 480-490 range. This is to make sure I am in the position I like for riding. Like you I favor the bigger end for aggressive riding and the smaller end for more relaxed riding. The reason I care about top tube is so I am comfortable seated on a long climb or flat smooth section. With this I also have a max and min 630-670. With this all I care is that it is in that range because between sliding the seat and small stem length changes I can make any bike in that range comfy.

So when sizing I find the size with reach closest to my ideal that still has a top tube somewhere in the right range. If Incant fond both, then that model doesn’t have a size that fits me.

[thomasvandervalk]

Great subject! When I'm looking for a new bike I always create a geo chart so I can compare measurements like reach, stack and chainstay length. I compare them all to a bike I was really happy with, my '18 Stumpjumper which was an XL. I look for whatever size comes closest to that and then decide where to compromise if need be. Changes in stem length, bar rise, crank length etc... can make a size up or down work but you need to realize how different they will feel. For example, I just bought a Nukeproof Scout in XL based on the fact that it has a reach thats only 5mm longer that my Stumpjumper was but the bike felt pretty bad to me, almost unrideable because the stack was so much lower. I could barely lift the front end over logs. it felt like a straight up XC bike. I installed a set of 80mm rise, Deity Highside bars and it totally transformed the bike and I love it now! Bottom line is you need to know a few measurements that work best for you and the trails you ride most. Understanding the relationship between pedal, handlebar, axle and seat positions is key in setting up a bike to perform well.
Looking forward to your full course!

[aidancleary]

I'm 5ft 10 on a xl ragely marley aggressive bike for an aggressive size is what I'm gathering

[dadventuretv]

Great vid. I always recommend people look at standover height compared to their inseam to make sure they will be able to stand over the frame with ample space and then look at the reach measurement. Reach takes a person demoing a few bikes a few times and comparing different reaches in order find out what they like. But I like your rule of thumb that for more aggressive riding consider going longer reach and for more all day pedaling consider a shorter reach. I also recommend people look at the Effective Top Tube measurement because with steeper Seat Tube Angles and slacker Head Tube Angles and shorter stems, the seated riding positions on some bikes can feel small even though the bike’s wheelbase and reach might be on the longer side. This is something that I think people need to be aware of too. It’s actually one of the reasons I size up, because I don’t like the small cockpit feeling while seated. Finally, the seat post height is simply to determine if they should perhaps get a shorter or longer dropper for the people at the extremes in height- for most in the middle usually the stock sized dropper works well. I agree I hate the general size charts based on height, bc a lot of people (like myself) have either longer torso compared to legs or longer legs compared to torso, and this makes a huge difference in what size will be right for the person. Great vids that I think will help a lot of people. Keep up the good work. Btw- listening to the history lesson got me all nostalgic- man those 90s bikes were crap compared to what we have today but we rode the hell out of em and had fun anyway.

[degaboss]

I like the content you are bringing to the channel, keep it coming bro