Should Hagia Sophia be a Mosque? | Dr. Safiyyah Ally

Turkish president #Erdogan’s decision to convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque has sparked controversy around the world. Dr. Safiyyah Ally explores at the history of this famous monument (first as a #Christian Eastern Orthodox cathedral, then a Roman Catholic cathedral, then a mosque, then a museum, and now a mosque again), explaining that it was common for ancient places of worship to change hands and functions depending on who was in power. She considers whether using Hagia Sophia as a place of #Muslim worship will erase its Christian heritage and diminish its religious diversity. She explains that this controversy raises additional questions about the best way to preserve and value our cultural heritage. Do we best honour the value of a historical monument by continuing to use it as originally intended – as the Hagia Sophia will be used as a place of worship? Should we use these sites, and let their purpose and meaning change and evolve with time, or do we try to preserve our history by keeping these sites safe and unchanged? Should we prioritize one aspect of a site’s history, or to try to remember all the elements of a site’s complex past? We leave it up to you to decide!

#HagiaSophia #istanbul #turkey

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[charalambi]

The Agia Sophia is not a museum or a mosque. It is a Greek Orthodox church. One day it will return home.

[hayatullahrahmatzai]

This is a clear example of intolerance towards diversity. Sultan Ahmad mosque is just facing the cathedral and there is no need to turn this to another mosque.

[anlercabrera]

The Hagia Sophia is a Greek Orthodox Church, it will be back.

[samroe]

I am a muslim and I completely disagree with the change. When the Caliph Umar entered Jerusalem, following its conquest, he asked the Christian clergy about a place where to pray. The Christians offered him to pray inside their church. He turned down the offer saying that if he does that, there is a risk that Muslims may in the future claim the Church as theirs, under the pretext that their Caliph has prayed there. Umar motive was justice while for Erdogan, it's about politics.

[alexjoy]

I actually really appreciate this unbiased take on the issue. From an orthodox Christian perspective this church was different. The orthodox Christians is a minority even in Christianity and this church was once the seat of the head of the orthodox Christianity. So to see that now it’s turned into a mosque, it’s kind of disheartening. Our population is slowly dying out around the Middle East and this is just kicking us wen we’re down. Before wen we went to see the building we saw it as a museum/church/mosque, now if we go see it you are just gonna see it as a mosque.

[SuperChef]

Keep it as a historic museum it has christian and islamic history and seeing it both in one building is beautiful and teaches historic education. Religious, political, and cultural.

[brianhenderson]

The problem with the argument that “Making Hagia Sophia a mosque would best allow it to be used for its original purpose of being a place of worship because the majority of Turkey’s population is Muslim” is that it ignores the fact the Turkey has actively discriminated against its non-Muslim population by passing increasingly pro-Islamic laws that limit the rights of non-Muslims and through acts of genocide like The Armenian Genocide that were aimed to “cleanse” Turkey of its non-Turkish and non-Muslim population. Not saying she supports that argument or not, just rebutting it as a point of debate.

[mr.anderson]

The Hagia Sophia should’ve remained a museum and if reverted to a place of worship to a Greek Orthodox cathedral, because it was a very important building in orthodoxy before the fall of the eastern Roman Empire. To take away the Hagia Sophia from the orthodox is the equivalent of taking away Saint Peter’s basilica from Catholicism or the Kaaba from Islam, it was the spiritual center of the faith and now it isn’t any longer. It’s very unfair they reverted it to a mosque.

[palestinevideos]

I'm kind of torn over this. On the one hand it's normal that buildings will be converted over time to change as the population changes. The Byzantine empire was a Christian majority. Now Turkey is a Muslim majority so it made sense for the cathedral to be converted into a mosque. Even in Christian majority countries like the UK many churches are no longer used as people became less religious and some have been converted into many things including pubs and restaurants. It was converted to a mosque a very long time ago and was a mosque for hundreds of years.

But on the other hand it was originally built as a cathedral and Islam commands Muslims to protect Christians and their places of worship.

So in my opinion Allah demands that we keep it as a cathedral for Christians and that we preserve that and we protect the Christians travelling to worship there.

So I think the decision to turn it into a mosque is against what Islam commands of us.

Mosques have also been converted into churches or other buildings like many mosques in Spain. But others bad actions doesn't give the right for Muslims to ignore what Islam commands.

It should not be a mosque, nor should it be a museum. It should stay as a Christian place of worship, by Allah's commandments to Muslims.


However if there are no more Christians anywhere in the world, or anywhere in Turkey?? Then maybe it's ok to become a mosque. But until then you are taking a Christians building of worship away from them.

We don't need to ask this question and debate it. As Muslims we were already told what to do in simple language:
"Protect Christians and their place of worship and their right to travel to their place of worship"

It can't be made clearer than this.

[gauravagrawal]

She’s so moderate and unbiased. So rare to see this in Islam.

[NikoChristianWallenberg]

It is not allowed to turn churches to mosques: the prophet said that Christian places of worship must be protected and respected. This is wrong.

[marios]

Greeks at 1261 take back the HagiaSophia and turned it back to orthodox churck until 1453, you just forgot it but ok

[KS-dtug]

Will you be so logical and open minded, if for example Al Aqsa changes hands? I am a big fan of Let the Quran Speak, but disappointed here, i would have expected an answer based on what the Quran defines as right or wrong in such situation, and not a "others did it so we do it too" type of answer

[valentinolatos]

Interesting way to put it. Towards the beginning of this video you make mention of historical sites which are still used for religious practices "notra dame cathedral in Paris is still an active catholic church as well as a tourist attraction and world heritage site'" and then take mention to the backlash received over the re-conversion of Hagia Sophia. Towards the end of this video you state, "maybe there is a way to do both" with regards to preserving one's history whilst allowing its use to change over time - this statement kind of aligns to its current status (mosque and museum) and not 'only a mosque' as you said in this video.

Prior to giving my own take on this whole ordeal, I would like to state three things (as you used the example of the Parthenon in this video)
(1) The Parthenon of Athens was converted into a Christian Temple by the early 600s, during this time, ancient Greek religion was no more and the rise of Christianity was its heights. Athens then fell under Ottoman occupation and by early 1460, the Pantheon was converted into a mosque, and then used as an ammunition dump in 1687 by the Ottomans during the siege of the Acropolis (Ottomans v Venetians).
We could spin this line of history in two ways (one without the addition of latter history and one with). First, we could say that the Parthenon was used as an ammunition dump to suit the needs of the people at the time, for example, the ottomans were at war and needed to use it for so and so reason (i.e. strategic importance as they thought the Venetians wouldn't shoot at such a historical site). The second could be with the addition of further historical fact, for instance, following the Parthenon’s explosion, the Ottomans granted permission to a foreign national to remove statues from the historical site, to which remaining rubble was then used to re-build to another mosque.... Although the use of this site has changed over the course of time, we have one group who seemed to do a better job in the name of its preservation [Ancient Greek Religious site --> Christian Religious Site --> Re-built Historical Site (Current)] than the other [Islamic Site --> Ammunition Dump --> Re-built mosque with surrounding rubble]. So which part should we remember? The Ancient Greek Temple, the Christian Site, the Ottoman mosque or the ammunition dump?

(2) Natre dam cathedral was built in the name of Christianity, as was Hagia Sophia.

(3) You state that the Hagia Sophia has changed hands on several occasions. In the examples provided, you state that it was invaded and declared a "Roman Catholic cathedral instead' and that was not until later that the Ottoman's raided 'poor Hagia Sophia' 'again'. To put it plainly, a Roman Catholic Cathedral is a 'Christian Cathedral'.

Now that I have outlined three important facts (not subjective viewpoints with minor points of fact), but facts, which were provided in depth and not vaguely to validate my next assertion (whether implicit or not), I would like to go onto the next.

Why was the the Hagia Sophia converted into a museum in the first place? was it because of Ataturk's appreciation for Hagia Sophia's historical significance? the mosaics? maybe to create strategic dialogue between Turkey and Western powers at the time? In the end, the message is quite clear: Turkey, at the time, 'acknowledged' (in bold) Hagia Sophia's significance and its importance to the world, whether strategic or not.
Yes, the site was originally intended to be a place of worship and yes, it can operate as a place or worship and as a museum. Although I am a Greek Orthodox Christian, I will still visit the Hagia Sophia one day.

Should the factor of 'intended use' come into play? In doing so, one must consider (as you said) the majority Muslim population, the right to self determination and the aspect of religious 'worship'. On the other hand, one should also look into the significance of this site - being the most important christian cathedral for almost 1000 years in the (then) christian capital. What would Constantine the Great, being the first christian emperor and founder of (then) Constantinople, whom commissioned the construction of Hagia Sophia say? what were his intentions and does this really matter? Let’s not try to over intellectualize it. Hagia Sophia is situated in Turkey and it is within Turkey's sovereign rights to do what they please.

But again, the notion of 'originally intended' cannot be so loosely defined. If the US, Russia, Germany, France, England, Italy and Spain teamed up and sent their armies down to Saudi Arabia, used unequivocal force to annihilate surrounding territories, reduced Muslim populations and converted the Great Mosque of Mecca into a Christian Cathedral, how would one answer this question? If you start your answer with "but Hagia Sophia was a mosque for over 400 years" then fine, lets change the scenario - the aforementioned countries are now called 'West Empire', and have used the Great Mosque of Mecca as a Christian Cathedral for over 400 years, however, World War III eventually broke out between West Empire and Muslim majority states, by the end of the war, West Empire is dissolved into numerous states (mainly Muslim), however, Mecca is still situated within its sovereign power, and as part of its establishment into the new Christian state, it converts the Great Mosque of Mecca into a museum for all to see. 90 years later, the museum is re-converted into a Christian Cathedral/Museum. The Christian Cathedral is now open 5 days a week except for Saturday, Sunday and during all religious ceremonies. During prays, Mecca and other Islamic monuments are covered. The newly appointed Orthodox priest just raised his sword on the once Islamic, but now, Christian Cathedral . But do not worry, it can still be used as a museum from Monday to Friday.

The fact that you used the Parthenon, a classical Greek site, and framed your line of questioning in such a way with the end "maybe we could do both" is annoying. There is no right or wrong in converting the Hagia Sophia into a mosque. But your line of factual truth and questioning is suggestive. You attempt to downplay this conversion by mentioning the numerous raids which took place in 'poor Hagia Sophia'. You make points to illustrate the other side, vaguely, but then try to provide an 'unbiased' interpretation of the next.

If 'West Empire' 'conquered' Suadi Arabia tomorrow, converted it into a Christian Cathedral, and then I made a youtube video 500 years later and said 'poor Great Mosque of Mecca' changed hands on numerous occasions, first Arab rule then Ottoman, then Arab and now Christian... c'mon, let's not try to downplay the facts here. It was originally a christian site.

To simplify:
1) It is Turkey's sovereign right to do what they please.
2) In theory, the site can be used as both a Museum and place of worship, whether one defeats the purpose of the latter raises another question all together.
3) The conversion of this site into a mosque illustrates a lack of humanity, however, such viewpoint will vary depending on who you ask.
4) The conversion of this site into a place of worship is irrelevant as to its true intention, as you said, times do change, but so do attitudes.
5) Allah is god and god is allah, If i want, I can go into this site and pray, regardless of whether it is a church, mosque or museum, I go by my ancestors intentions, not Erdogan's. Borders are political constructs. They do not exist. Faith is immeasurable.
6) The fact that you mention the catholic invasion of Hagia Sophia is irrelevant. In short, there is a difference between church-ism and religion, Catholic's are Christians are Orthodox.

Do not undermine a person's ancestral history. Hagia Sophia and modern day Istanbul withstood thousands of Muslim invaders over the course of 1000 years. The Parthenon of Athens is a symbol of Ancient Greece, and with that, came Democracy and the notion Western civilization. It cannot be used as originally intended, firstly, because it’s been blown to pieces, secondly, Ancient Greek religion no longer exists - nor will it acknowledge the place of its previous occupiers. It comes down to sovereignty and sovereignty alone, and with that, comes the right to self determination and the will of the people. Or, as the Ancient Greeks put it: Democracy. If the Turks want another mosque, then by all means, they can have another mosque. But, in turn, it is not up to them, or any other Muslim nation or person, to comment on the reception received by other nations.

I watched your video. In full. Your video sparks a line of questioning, and of course, this question should lie on each individual's interpretation. But do not downplay the facts. Do not compare this conversion to Natre Dame or the Parthenon of Athens. Things don’t simply change overtime. We’re talking 916 years, in the first christian capital, to which the first christian emperor commissioned.
Natre dame is still active as a place of worship because its harmonious with its intended purpose. The Parthenon is symbol of democracy. It was built, burnt down by Persians, re-built again, and now in ruins.

If you try to over intellectualize, then it raises the argument of Temple Mount and the current Israeli occupation. Instead, try to educate yourself, in full, and then place yourself in the other person's shoes but in doing so, like i have, understand the will of the people.
The only thing that matters is the issue of preservation. Are the floors of the Hagia Sophia cleaned regularly? is there regular maintenance carried out? are there adequate systems in place to ensure its continuance until the end of time? if yes, then that all that matters. If your Christian, do not worry about the Imam, or the raising of the sword on top of the cathedral, let them spread their religion of peace. Imagine if Turkey were a communist country, something is better than nothing.

[dbaue]

It’s the Muslim equivalent of turning Al aqsa mosque being turned into a church.

[jdjdbsjndnd]

My opinion: it should be a museum where both stories of Christian and Muslims are represented, not only the Muslims history. Im a muslim myself, but in this way the bigger picture of the history will be know. Also in the Quran it says: Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:08. It would be just/fair to let it be a museum. Remember it was a church before. We can make other mosques that are SIMPLEEE. Prophet Muhammad SAW said that: Simplicity is a part of eemaan (faith). A mosque should be simple and not include adorment & jewellry as this money could be used to poor ppl. A mosque should be a peacefull place to worship and invite others to Islam. So I conclude this with that I stand for the opinion of that it should be a museum, not a mosque, due to respect for example.

[ericjorgensen]

"Nothing in history is ever stagnant. As cultures and power structures change with time, so do the artifacts and monuments we have created". So if, say, the *Israeli* *government* decided to confiscate the Dome of the Rock and turn it into a synagogue, would that be okay?

[bozeeke]

This building is the Orthodox Vatican. It is not just another random church. What Turkey has done originally during the Ottoman period in 1453 and now again in 2020 would be the equivalent of a western state conquering Saudi Arabia and turning Mecca into a church or synagogue. If Turkey really wants to be a modern, westernized state and wants to be part of the EU like they've been attempting to for three decades, a good first step would be to declare this building as what it actually is, the seat of Orthodox Christianity and decree all Christian visitors should be welcomed to come and worship there when visiting the country. Period.

[h]

As much I love and respect erdogan. He should have left the hagia as a museum... To represent all religion and history of Turkey.

[bunkenator]

As-salām alaykum. Many interesting perspectives come forward in your talk, dr Ally. However i think it's possible to over-intellectualise a matter like this. What does it matter if there's a Muslim majority in Turkey when the majority of Muslims in Turkey never will pray there anyway, and the nearby great mosque is quite sufficient for jumu'a prayers? And who wants to pray in a space where the walls are covered in suggestive imagery? And what were the circumstances surrounding the conversion into a mosque in the first place? Some say it was bought fair and square, but what's fair and square? And why do we Muslims need a monument? I think the Hagia Sophia should be presented back to the Eastern Orthodox Church together with our sincere apologies. Our hadhrat Umar radhallāhu anhu set the right example by refusing to pray in the church in Jerusalem out of fear the Muslims would then convert it to a mosque at a later stage.