Outsmart a Narcissist: A Proven 4-Step Plan to Take Your Power Back | Mel Robbins Podcast

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Is it possible to be around narcissistic people and not lose your power? Especially when it's your mom, dad, ex, or boss who’s acting toxic?

Today, Mel is joined by Rebecca Zung, an expert on narcissism and a globally recognized high-conflict negotiator. Rebecca is also a top-ranked trial lawyer who has studied narcissism so that she could win against them in the courtroom. She’s written the playbook, SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with A Narcissist and Win.

She is here to make the case that you CAN stay in power no matter how toxic the people are around you. And by following her 4-part plan, you can even win when dealing with narcissism.

In this conversation, Rebecca discusses topics like:
Narcissism: what is it?
The 3 types of #narcissism
The link between narcissism and divorce
The exact phrases that can change the dynamic between you and a narcissist
The top 3 sentences to disarm a narcissist without causing rage
Why “cutting off” a narcissist won’t work
The physical symptoms you can have when dealing with a narcissist
Why being “the victim” is keeping you trapped
What happens in a narcissistic brain in childhood that flips a switch
The tie between trauma and narcissism
What the 4 non-verbal triggers for any narcissist are
Why a narcissist is just an 8-year-old throwing a tantrum
The reason why a narcissist actually fears you
The definition of love bombing and why it’s so addictive
What the 3 phases of a narcissistic relationship are
How you can be physiologically addicted to a ‘love bomber’ (it’s as addictive as cocaine)
What narcissistic rage is and why it happens
What your 3 options are in a relationship with a narcissist
What those passive-aggressive or back-handed comments mean to a narcissist
What triangulation is, and how to protect yourself
The biggest myth about narcissists
The real reason why narcissists string you along
The 4-step process to getting your power back from a narcissist
The $2M apology
What to do when a narcissist is raging at you
The 3 things to stop doing now in a narcissistic relationship
How to respond to an accusatory email at work
What you need to know about negotiating with a narcissist
Why saying “I’m anticipating…” disarms any narcissist
The first boundary you need to create with a narcissist
What to look for as signs that you are dating, engaged to, or married to a narcissist

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I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode.

In this episode:
00:00 Intro
02:27 Why “cutting off” a narcissist won’t work.
07:02 What is a narcissist? (It’s not what you think.)
09:11 You need to stand up to the narcissist in your life.
12:52 The 3 types of narcissism look like this.
17:39 This is the scariest type of narcissist.
21:07 What happens in a narcissist brain in childhood that flips a switch?
32:17 This is what “narcissistic blindness” is.
35:33 Narcissists aren’t born; they are made. Here’s the research.
40:47 Do narcissists feel fear?
43:39 The 2 ways a narcissist gets their “narcissistic supply"
49:11 What are the 3 phases of a narcissistic relationship?
51:48 What is love bombing, and how do you detect it?
1:01:02 This is why even the smartest people fall in love with narcissists.
1:08:11 What do those passive-aggressive or back-handed comments mean to a narcissist?
1:11:02 The biggest myth about narcissists
1:17:29 The first boundary you need to create with a narcissist
1:19:34 Why does saying “I’m anticipating..." disarm any narcissist?
1:22:09 Rebecca’s 4-part framework you need to deal with a narcissist
1:29:09 When the rage hits, here is how you can stay in your power.

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[gingerturner]

I disagree that they can't control their emotions. My husband controls his emotions just fine when anyone else is around, but behind closed doors turns into a monster.

[BlackthornBetty]

I absolutely do NOT believe narcissists just forget what they did. It's all gaslighting. Period. I barely survived narcissistic abuse so I have extensive experience with them and they deserve zero sympathy for their gaslighting.

[deezahm]

I was married to a narcissist for 35 years. He divorced me when I was no longer of “use” to him. You are so right—the narc will take himself down in order to take you, too. When he couldn’t get to me with his belittling, raging, having affairs, etc. he took me down financially. I’ve learned a lot in my 67 years—take it from me—if you live or know a narcissist in your life, RUN.

[Katrn]

My mother is 89, and still going strong in her narcissistic behaviour. She is a gossip, a perpetual victim, a martyr, gaslighting is her specialty. Before I knew anything about narcissism, I used words like rage, tantrum, manipulative, pouter….all the buzz words fit her. I was her dumping ground…I am the oldest of 6 kids, and my siblings ran to me when they were in trouble or hurt, because they knew she would start raging and throwing a tantrum, and they would not be helped. My dad had a seizure while driving my young siblings, and ran the van into the ditch. My 9 year old brother ran home and I could hear him calling out my name….I was 15, and I ran to him, barefoot, the couple of blocks where everyone was. I asked a neighbour to call the cops (we didn’t have 911 yet) and he took my dad to the hospital since he was starting to wake up. The cop told me to drive the vehicle home ( I wasn’t old enough to have a license) which I did. Btw, my mother was home, it just didn’t occur to my brother or me to get her involved. Later when he was diagnosed with epilepsy and lost his job, my mother blamed me for calling the cops and getting my father to the hospital. I felt so guilty for decades for causing hardship to my family, but my dad was an air traffic controller, and as a family we were ordered not to tell anyone about his seizures. He put people’s lives at risk by not disclosing his medical condition. I couldn’t sleep at night because of all the guilt I felt. I realize now, at 66, that I was not responsible for any of that, and the adults in my life did not act like adults…that job fell onto me.

[TP-fqwd]

I've had one NARCISSISTIC person in my life. As soon as I saw their behavior trying to down grade me...I got quiet and left the next day. Period. I'm not about to deal with an insecure fool. They aren't worth the heartache. 💯

[hsteele]

Married to a severe narcissist for 17 years …showed him compassion and understanding - he was a devil and he did know what he was doing and many many things were carefully planned out. Don’t feel sorry for them!

[babycakes]

It's not just 'childhood trama', there's also the 'golden child' syndrome where the kid is praised & spoiled so much that it just goes to their head & they learn to expect that praise & adoration from everyone, deserved or not.

[MuniiBagRose]

They are literally inconsiderate to others and they need to be held accountable for their actions.

[shanastanek]

Feeling sorry for a narcissist or having empathy for what they went through as a child is the absolute WORST advice. They’ll pick up on that immediately and use it to manipulate you with whenever they do something wrong.

Narcissists are very dangerous people. Trying to outsmart one is a great way to lose your mind and also your soul. I tried for 10 years with my ex. Ended up with chronic PTSD, can barely function, and don’t even recognize myself anymore.

[thetruthhurts]

There is an intent to destroy!! Their Ego is huge!!! They truly don't care about anyone but themselves

[jeanettehigginbotham]

I experienced this firsthand with my first husband. The RAGE when I would stand up for myself... wow! After 9 years, many affairs, lying, I took my 2 kids and walked away with the shirt on my back. Totally worth it. Was a single Mom, poor, but ended up meeting my dream man who is the best husband, father, now grandfather and we've been married 27 years blending our family.

[kseniag]

If you are listening to this podcast and recognize the behaviors, run! It only gets worse! Test one 1: tell them No, and you will hear everything they actually think about you. Test 2: Ask them for help when you are sick or feel vulnerable, they will blame you for being sick, etc and will not supprt you. Test 3: every time you are doing something good for yourself, achieve something they will do something bad to ruin the good memory. They will make it about themselves..Did i say
run ??? Block them! And never look back..🏃‍♀️

[DavidPereira-wfuo]

Sorry to all victims of this horrible experience. Such evil .

[jitterbug]

Using a traumatic childhood against another person is the lowest of lows. They absolutely know what they're doing and they know it works to coerce you into accepting their abuse.

[Cameraqueen]

Stems from a lack of accountability, catering to abusive behaviours and a rewards system that caters to all of the wrong behaviours. It’s a cycle.

[susangoodwin]

I don’t believe narcissists behavior is always from trauma. It is also from overindulgence and not being held accountable by parents . When a parent raises a child and does not build intrinsic value, they will be find their value by tearing down others,

[saradale]

Narcissism is not caused just from childhood trauma it can be caused by over inflated attention as a child. That was the situation with my sister.

[laurengarrett]

They can't control their emotions but when in front of people outside the home they sure control themselves. So there is some control.

[lindawillis]

Through studying NPD, I have been healing from a lifetime of narcissistic relationships, starting with my parents, 2 husbands and 2 male friends. It wasn't until the last relationship listed here, I became aware of what I was dealing with and how to deal with it. After suffering near death pneumonia and CPTSD I am now 4 years out, no contact and FREE. How did I do it ? I stopped taking his B. S. and set boundaries, one at a time, to which he responded, " You have a very strong core." I never lost knowing who I was and strength in my beliefs in spiritual guidance. I spent most of the Covid lockdown researching narcissism and my co-dependency. Knowledge is wisdom and power. Do what it takes to recover. You are worth it !

[shanastanek]

Some poor woman who watches this looking for answers about her narcissistic husband is going to end up excusing his abuse because you said he doesn’t realize or remember the things he’s done and that she should have empathy for him. Narcissists know exactly what they’re doing. They lie about not remembering because they never want to be held accountable for their actions. The minute you feel sorry for them, is the minute you give your power away.