Richard Dawkins and the Evil God Problem | Jack Symes

This is a clip from yesterday's podcast release with philosopher and author Jack Symes. In it, he and Dr. Peterson discuss the naivety of new age Atheists and the evil God problem.

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[FLABrowncoat]

The problem with all sides of this comments thread is that we're all forcing man-made rules of morality upon God, and getting pissed when He doesn't follow the rules we've made up.

[vanv]

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God.

[HeilanPiper]

"They muddy the water, to make it seem deep."
Friedrich Nietzsche

[LiamMorris]

The first guy is a perfect example of how far confidence can carry you in life in spite of complete lack of critical thinking skills. I choked on my drink when he said he has a book worth £85.

[timothyglassbrook]

Something I think about fairly often when I hear the claim "a just God wouldn't allow x y and z", is that we are the ones who allowed it. We failed to prevent the catastrophes of the past. We have dominion over the earth, and as stewards we're responsible for steering the ship. The fault doesn't rest with God but with us

[darkengine]

The problem I have is that at the end of the day, I'm still being asked to believe in supernatural claims for which I don't think anyone truly lacking faith one way or another can accept any more than a claim that extraterrestrials built the pyramids or the existence of haunted houses. Unlike Dawkins, I don't get all the way to the point that any god or gods are evil. I simply don't find compelling enough evidence for their existence. I'm not trying to trivialize the deeper philosophical aspects of theism but at the end of the day, you're asking me to believe in something for which I find no more plausible reason to believe in than all the other religions even the most devout theists reject.

If a theist finds the supernatural claims of Hinduism absurd, like the idea that world is balanced by a giant turtle -- the Kurma Avatar -- then surely you can empathize with why I find claims like virgin births and talking snakes and ancient people living to be over 900 years old equally absurd. Studying the ancient texts more isn't going to help me accept such claims any more than you studying Hinduism more will result in you accepting the Kurma Avatar and converting to Hinduism.

I'm a hopeless case as a confession with this type of extremely weak empirical evidence being presented for the existence of the supernatural. So I hope you'll forgive me for that if I'm truly wrong. I can still learn how to become a better person in harmony with myself and others. I'm a big fan of this quote:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius [Stoic philosophy]

[ExMachina]

As an Atheist, I get tired of repeated strawman arguments, and having religious people making the claim that the reason I'm an Atheist is because I'm hateful and angry. I just care about truth. If I find evidence enough to make me believe that any one religion is true, then I'll believe, but I refuse to believe by faith. There's a saying that I've read a long time ago, and it epitomizes faith.
_"I've never seen faith move mountains, but I've seen what it does to skyscrapers."_

[dubpynchon]

‘God’s love moves in even his smallest creatures’ - Osip Mandelstam

[wmarkfish]

Canaanites were not descendants of Cain but Canaan, son of Ham, the result of his incestuous relationship with his stepmother.

[SilentStormParadox]

If we define good as that which leads to more life and well-being, and bad as that which leads to more death and breakdown,
then a Source of Bad cannot exist because bad is just things ceasing to exist, and Good is existence, therefore there must be a Source of Good.

[byksbpd]

So, we still haven’t progressed beyond the “God’s ways are higher than our own, you’ll never understand, no big deal, wasseva “ method of argument? We’ve only continued adding flowery language to it?

[_vofy]

One should have integrity. That said, the physics don't seem to stop and turn around when horrors are happening. I need a better answer than "trust me bro", the pain is real enough.

[RohannvanRensburg]

The subject of the New Atheists was dealt with as thoroughly as it ever needed in 2010 via Edward Feser's book _The Last Superstition_ .

[MrHeafy]

I’m halfway through and he has not made a point yet…

[John.Christopher]

Because if we did not have the capacity to reject what is good, just, true, and beautiful we would be soulless automatons with no free will, no agency, no beauty, no depth of expirience, no dichotometric expiriences. Our ability to participate in God's plan is a gift that elevates us into higher being. To Love in it's truest form - unconditionally for the sake of the other. To expirience joys impossible without self agency and free will to reject or overcome our own shortcomings. If good is the only state, we would simply be hedonistic trust fund babies - boring, depthless, shallow, unappreciative of anything, and lacking in anything that would be worthwhile. We might actually create chaos just so something new "happens" We are called to the adventure of our lives. We are called to greatness, glory, joy, beauty. In our faith in God, this life is also transient. It passes away. It is a proving ground, a testing ground. It is temporal. We must do as our sincerest form our our conscience calls us to do, though we reject it often in our own selfishness.

[DisabilityExams]

Peterson has no idea many atheists are like me - non-prozeletizing. We don't get into arguments about the existence of God, because we are fine with everyone believing as they wish.
We regard the atheist fanatics who want everyone to believe as they do as as crazy as the religious fanatics, who want everyone to believe as they do.
The fact that Peterson becomes enraged whenever he thinks of atheists reflects his own insecurity in his faith in God. If his faith was certain, the existence of others who believe other than he does would not bother him in the least.

[Chidds]

As soon as anyone declares a presumed god as all-good or all-evil their notion of a god becomes nonsensical.

[merlepatterson]

At the end of the day and after thousands of years of argument, it still holds true that the argument continues and equal evidence (or lack thereof) exists for either argument, without resolution. To continue argument without further evidence in favor of either argument is an exercise in futility and pointlessness.

[buddhistsympathizer]

"We don't need to address that, we can leave that aside"
Why? It's a valid question. You ignoring it doesn't help.
I couldn't watch any more of this video after that . . .

[ThePaulaon]

It's all just words at the end of the day. What it really just comes down to is feelings. And if you want to describe those feelings with words get things like God.