Origins of the Ancient Minoans | DNA

In this video I host Dr. Peter Revesz on an absolutely fascinating subject and that is the origins of the ancient Minoans.

The Minoan civilization flourished in the Middle Bronze Age on the island of Crete located in the eastern Mediterranean from c. 2000 BCE until c. 1500 BCE. With their unique art and architecture, and the spread of their ideas through contact with other cultures across the Aegean, the Minoans made a significant contribution to the development of Western European civilization as it is known today.

In this episode we go back to a time before civilization. A time of mass migration.

This episode sets out to explore the Minoan Origins from different viewpoints.

Firstly, we explore traditional narratives and especially what they got wrong.
And then we approach Ancient DNA, Art motifs, Vowel harmony, Script similarity, Etymology and finally Translations.

Has Dr. Revesz deciphered Linear A Script and how has his work been accepted?

As we conclude Dr. Revesz believes his data analysis lead to the conclusion that we need to separate the Minoans into two groups: the Early Minoans and the Middle Minoans.(The Late Minoans could be a third group, but there is no archaeogenetic data about them.) Earlier studies have not separated these groups, which have different origins.

The Early Minoans came from Anatolia, while the Middle Minoans came from the Danube Basin. (Sailing from the Danube Delta to Crete is quite possible via the Bosporus Strait.)

Support Dr. Revesz below at these links and check out his YouTube Channel.

University webpage:

My genetics video, from where the map with the circle comes from:

Art motifs video (water and well motifs):

Vowel harmony video:

Decipherment video (with the script similarity matrix and
the translation of the gold ring):

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[adaml]

Unfortunatly this does have a strong ring of Hungarian nationalism. The fact that the modern Hungarian population have some DNA from the mesolithic population does not in any way mean that the Fino ugaric languages originate there. If that were the case then every modern European language could claim to originate in mesolithic Europe, as most Europeans carry some mesolithic DNA from the European hunter gatherer popultion of the time, due to the migrants breeding with the local populations.

[joluoto]

It's dangerous to try to make too many conclusions about language from genes. History has shown many times that genes and language doesn't necessarily walk the same paths.

[Mairiain]

The discussion on Linear A was absolutely fascinating! Thank you to both of you!

[madameagnes]

Thank you Nick for your open mind and having invited Dr

[stefanodadamo]

Well, a Hungarian finding a connection with Uralo-Altaic populations is quite suspect TO SAY THE LEAST.

[lindsayheyes]

Excellent video, but I am very disappointed by the prejudice shown against Peter Revesz in the comments. Many are most shamefully disrespectful, and reflect badly on their authors.

They say it is because he is Hungarian, but I suspect that it because they consider that data analysts ought not to be so arrogant as to tread on the toes of 'proper' historians. I encountered something similar in History of Art when I demonstrated that the paintings of David were composed using harmonic schemata. So here's a pejorative word for Peter's critics from British history:
'Luddites'.

Thanks to Peter for his endeavour and tenacity. Respect, Dr. Revesz, and thank you for a clear explanation of advanced techniques. You, Sir, are a steely-eyed rocket-man of linguistic analysis.

[cynthiamclaglen]

What an amazing man Dr Peter Revesz is! So much detail had to be sorted out and critically examined. So many genetics, and peoples had to be found and others rejected to just begin to see some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hun, Turkish to see the symbols found in masses imagery and the sounds found out' so many languages understood. Absolutely marvellous! So much still to do and exciting discoveries! Cynthia McLaglen

[timjoyce]

It is easy to smile at a Hungarian finding Hungarian links with the ancient Minoans, however, to be fair, they are mainly with Finnis and early settlers along the Danube. For me, it is not all that important whether, or not, it is eventually proved to be the final, correct answer. What I cannot deny is that there are 14 sensible translations resulting from this approach and that, if wrong, it will crash against the hundreds of yet-to-be-translated ones. So, we can let the scientific method be the final arbiter.

In the meantime, I thank both of you for presenting this careful and respectful piece of Scholarship.

[paulbennett]

Yes, please get Dr Revesz Peter again!

[inept_]

HUGE amount of speculation about vowel harmony here. those 'red' and 'blue' groups could be LITERALLY ANY LINGUISTIC DISTINCTION

[richardabbot]

Love your hoodie! ‘Sea Peoples Mediterranean Tour’

[ASAS-dnve]

It's mind blowing! Good luck with your further work!

[DelijeSerbia]

Are there historians that support this theory, as this just sounds like he was specifically looking for Hungarian connection with Minoans, not an actual origin of them?

[ottobottger]

Interesting but I remain unconvinced until he can cross check several translations and they prove to make sense. He makes a case, but only presents one example which may be biased by his Hungarian / fino ugric affinity... which could also be the angle for a breakthrough for sure... but comparison, peer review, and others attempting translations based on his hypothesis is needed.

[andrewblackard]

Dr Revesz, it occurred to me that your hypothesis may also help explain some mysterious bronze-age trade connections. Specifically, the abundant use of Baltic amber in ancient Egypt and the presence of bronze goods from Sardinia in northern Europe. Perhaps people migrated south following a trade route.

[gmkar]

A little sus that a Hungarian (especially someone that spent time in Greece) comes to the conclusion that Myceneans come from the Danube region and have ties to Finno-Hungric groups. Sorry if I don't buy this.

[stephenelberfeld]

That water motif is found in ancient Egyptian symbolism where there is a circle that Nut is astride with two jackals facing wavy water symbols, the left jackal touching the water with his paw. This was borrowed by the Boetians with a pair of male and female wolves, left with ithyphalic symbol and right with scallop/oyster female symbol. The male reaching up to touch the water pouring from Artemis' dress that has a fish symbol. This symbolizes taking a path with the water being emotional and mental in nature.

[velenektraian]

Hello, proposed Proto-Ugric homeland in Danubian valley sounds super strange. 
Proto Uralic (Ugric is a daughter branch) has a lot of words for northern coniferous trees, so much more northeastern homeland seems more plausible (near Ural mountains).
I feel Minoans being of European neolithic ancestry (ancestors of farmers who migrated from Anatolia to Danube valleys) sounds logical, but why should they be Ugric? What is known from Eteocretan language it looks more like related to Etruscan and Lemnian (Tyrsenian).

[briananderson]

Your doctor Revesz Is awesome! Thank you for having him on