If Determinism Is True, How Can You Know Anything? | Julian-FL | The Atheist Experience 24.47

SHOW TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro And Announcements
05:47 How D.B. Ramsey Got From There To Here
12:08 Michael-CO | Wife Is Asking Me To Attend Classes For Daughters Baptism
21:07 Paul-(EG) | Atheists Are Straw-Manning Prayer
33:50 Enoch-PA | How to Address Morality With Selfish People?
38:15 Danny-LA | God Is The Best Explanation For The Supernatural
48:32 Beth-MN | Why Does The Catholic Church Shuffle Criminal Priests Around?
55:08 Greg-FL | Why Is Slavery Immoral?
1:02:13 Mac-CA | The Necessity Of Religion On Morality
1:24:12 Julian-FL | If Determinism Is True, How Can You Know Anything?
1:27:23 What Was The One Thing That Made You Change Your Mind?
1:33:12 Outro

SHOW NOTES

Our first caller, Michael in CO is engaged to a Christian who wants to baptize his daughter and make him go to classes about it first. No one should be forced to participate in religion. Making you go to classes seems more like she is trying to change you. Decide what you are comfortable with and have those discussions with your wife.

Paul in England argues that atheists are strawmanning prayer, citing atheists equating prayer to wish granting from a genie. We don’t espouse that position. Paul agrees that the Bible supports answered prayers but says people skip the thanks part. The notion that someone’s prayers aren’t answered because they aren’t thankful or positive enough is abhorrent.

Enoch in PA asks how we address morality with someone who says they care about only themselves. Does that person want food, healthcare, transportation? If they are not willing to contribute, they are disenfranchising themselves from society. We have never met anyone that really didn’t care.

Danny in LA thinks that God is the best explanation for the supernatural/non-natural. You first need to define supernatural AND God. We agree that you can’t verify the supernatural, at least. The mind is not supernatural...oof. The mind is a label we put on what the brain does. How can you show something is non-natural?

Beth in MN why does the catholic church shuffle criminal priests around? We are aware of the systematic child abuse and the coverup, how anyone can still support the catholic church is beyond us. Sadly this happens in protestant churches as well.

Greg in FL wants to have a logical conversation about why slavery is immoral. Do you feel it should be legal to own you as a slave? Greg wants to move the slavery discussion away from humans. That is what slavery is about, owning humans as property. We are stewards of our pets/animals that we own, you can’t just beat your pets.

Mac in CA asks about the necessity of religion and how it relates to a belief in god. Religion is not necessary. People don’t necessarily end up religious, some look for more scientific answers to life. Morality is NOT inherently tied to religion, there is such a thing as secular morality. Secular Morality does not lean on religion, it started in opposition to religion after religion.

Lastly, Julian in FL if compatibilism or determinism is true, how do you know anything was true if you were determined to believe it. Because you were determined to believe, doesn't mean one can’t be determined to not believe. The assessment of truth is that which comports with reality.

Thanks for tuning in, we are so glad you joined us today. Please continue to follow safety guidelines for COVID-19 and stay safe out there.

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[the-trustees]

Determinism is not based on our decision making, but instead how physical things result from physics and chemistry. And if your best argument for theism is trying to poke holes in ACTUAL science, you've already lost.

[williamtarry]

Leave it to a theist to twist logic to try and justify their god.
There is no empirical evidence supporting the existence of a god, much less the god of the Bible.

[rickyd.]

FREE WILL is that convenient excuse of believers to cover the fact that their non-existent god is not omnipotent.

[dalecs]

I have been viewing for more than ten years. Seems these days most of the calls are from people who just want to play word games.

[joegillian]

If what you believe is determined, then how can you know if anything is true? This is a very silly question, and I think it highlights the point that there is a step where the thinking basically stops because there is a preferred conclusion. They don't ever stop to think about what the determination is based on. They just assume it's arbitrary (like their god). How do you know if a belief is true under determinism? Because the reason you believe a thing is because it was DETERMINED to be true, not because it was arbitrarily decided, for no particular reason, that you will believe a thing (they also conflate determinism and predestination). I don't think they understand that by abandoning the notion of libertarian free will they won't actually be losing anything, because what we call a thing doesn't in any way change it's physical existence or it's physical properties. We have whatever level of human will that we have, and changing how you describe it won't change any of that in the slightest. They just want their notion of free will to be the correct one so badly for the sake of comforting the dangerously scary implications if they even consider that they might be wrong. But at the end of it all they'll find that everything that's actually important to them hasn't changed, and the life they live continues on in the same way that it always has.

[TheTruthKiwi]

It annoys me how christians have kind of patented the words "free will" as being some sort of magical consciousness given by a god.

They are two words ffs. Free and Will and all they mean are that we are conscious, sentient, natural beings and we can do what we like within reason. Nothing more nothing less.

[qwadratix]

Buddhism (Zen) is perfectly comfortable with determinism. It's part of the ideal state of mind. You just need to be comfortable with the fact. In itself, that presents the student with a problem because whether he'll be comfortable with it or not is already determined. (lol). The only way to achieve that state of comfort is by not striving for it.
That's where the idea of a Koan comes in. (What is the sound of one hand clapping?)

[randolphphillips]

Have had friends ask my opinion on "Free Will". Basically, if we do not have free will, just an illusion of, then my actions are determined, so it doesn't matter what I think, but with the illusion we should at least try to consider the consequences of our actions. If, however, we do have free will, not just an illusion of it, we need to act accordingly and consider the consequences of our action. Either way, we act as if we have free will, so determining which it is makes no difference (outside some physics pursuits).

[rickyd.]

TOP TEN FLAWS IN CHRISTIAN BEFIEF.

1. Various bible authors failing to copy each other, thus providing myriad contradictions about a wild story for which there is no evidence, and no eye witnesses.
2. A creator who is said to be omnipotent, yet has no control over the so-called devil along with the people he is said to have created.
3. An infallible god who supposedly created the most shockingly designed planet which includes fault lines/tectonic plates, and volcanoes, plus atmosphere which includes devastating weather patterns, such as cyclones tornadoes etc.
4. All of the above faults in the planet are said to have been created on the third day, before creating humans on the sixth day, thus a pre-meditated plan to wipe out the very people he had not yet invented
5. A supposedly omnipotent god, who created the first two imperfect people and believed that sin could be eradicated by sending an animal into the wilderness
6. Someone so kind, and so loving that he promoted the owning of slaves, beating them to within an inch of their lives, and telling parents that they could sell their daughters as slaves.
7. Someone who is said to have brought about the great flood to wipe out the whole of humanity, including thousands of babies and children, simply because he didn’t like what their parents did.
8. Taught his son Jesus that owning people as property was acceptable, hence why the new Testament states that slaves must obey their masters, including the cruel ones.
9. According to Luke 19:27, to become a popular confidant of Jesus, you must hate your mother, your brothers and sisters, your entire family, and yourself.
10. The necessity to brainwash children in order to keep the religious belief from dying out.

[ericgorlin]

Better answer: Computers. They're machines which we can agree are deterministic (or deterministic plus random). They're designed such that they can evaluate truth claims. We are such a machine, designed by evolution to detect truth (among other things).

[tamanwar]

I could hear Spinoza facepalming in the background

[sahb]

If Determinism is true, how can I not know?

[wwlib]

The Bible says God loves all His creation – yet: “ to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—” John 1:12. This should not be a source of offense or feelings of exclusion for anyone – for the Gospel message invites ALL people of all nations, tribes, races and religions to ‘receive Him”. So don't be offended. Think of it this way: If you invite 1, 000 people to share dinner with you and 50 people come to join you – were the other 950 people excluded by your choice or theirs? John 3 16 invites you to know how much God loves you, what the desire of His heart is and what His promise is that you may receive forgiveness, salvation, redemption and everlasting life. Like any invitation – you either receive or reject it. Hope you will come to know His love and great mercy toward you personally. Have a good day

[phrozenwun]

Brain states do not create external reality. Also, brain states are informed by an incomplete perception of reality. Thus no brain state can prove a one to one mapping of reality to any of its states. If we define knowing truth as a proving a mapping, then no brain can know truth.
Editorial: The mapping to external reality is key and precludes trivial truths like the nonexistence of married bachelors. This is a work in progress and I am looking for constructive criticism and any edits will be appended hereafter.

[harrysquitters]

Reading all these comments shows that there is a tragic and complete misunderstanding of what Christianity and a belief in God and his Holy word is all about. Sure it must seem sport to go theist bashing but this is a deadly serious issue. Your eternal everlasting for-ever future depends on you accepting or denying Christ.
Do you understand that a Christian is someone who has a relationship with Jesus Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, not an adherence to a set of rules. We are living through an ‘age of grace’ whilst God is building his church, soon to become the ‘bride of Christ’ and he wants you in it; time is running out. He died on the cross for you to partake in this great salvation. You should check it out, give it some thought and a bit of research. You wont regret it. The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about other than that there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth.