Analysts shocked by BYD and NIO failures in Europe and Germany

Analysts shocked by BYD and NIO failures in Europe and Germany
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[paul._david]

BYD got the pricing structure for Europe completely wrong. Their cars are simply too expensive. The base seal model needs to be cheaper than the Tesla model 3 base, simple as that. No European will buy a Chinese car unless its cheaper than established brands. I though that was supposed to be China's USP....the price and how cheap they would be.

[johndoe]

at least here in sweden byd is grossly overpriced. they have to do some serious price reduction to compete.

[alibro]

You hit the nail on the head when you said Europe has not been flooded with CHEAP Chinese EV's because BYD's are not cheap at all. MG's on the other hand are cheap and so are selling well. The only way Chinese brands will do well in Europe is by undercutting their rivals.

[TerryHickey-xtmf]

I live in New Zealand and we have a few great budget Chinese brands here. I chose the facelift mg zs ev simply because I liked the traditional interior, not really into guitar strings and barbells, The byd atto 3 has outsold the mg until recently, then the mg4 was released, and it just took off. We also have the Ora which is not as popular for some reason. BYD have now released their great little dolphin and the Seal, the big difference is that they are much more competitive compared to established brands here in NZ than in Europe. A lot of people have said that the byd brand is expensive in Europe because of shipping and taxes, but no different than the MG imports, so I think they are priced just too high for a new brand. I remember 30 years ago I bought a Hyundai and it was cheap! and went like a rocket, a bit rough around the edges, but a lot of fun (manual gearbox) to drive. So this is the thing, if you want to get established, and do not have a known 'badge' simply price your vehicles accordingly, just like Hyundai did until your badge is accepted by the mainstream, which theirs is now. Hyundai and Kia are big sellers here, Tesla of course rules the roost just like everywhere else, just a bit out of my price bracket, and when I sat in a model x a few years ago and closed the door, the window rattled in the door frame? regardless, I loved those rear doors however, alas they are no longer available for countries that drive on the correct side of the road (so I can keep my sword hand ready)😃.

[ReitzSteuerberater]

Living in Germany and being a potential EV-Buyer, i would assume, that MG and Smart are known brands in Germany and, at least Smart, a very established brand in Germany. MG was formerly known as producing small British Roadster and Smart was a direct offspring of Daimler Benz. They are both not seen as unknown chinese brands. Others are still unknown territory, a nice but brandfree interchangable design, no experience with availability and cost for maintanance of the car and so forth.

[finnwolffkaysfeld]

Yes, BYD is definitely far too expensive in Europe. It is after all a new brand here. If they had introduced the Seal at similar prices as in Australia, I think they would have succeeded.

[confluence]

For your information, I am in France and have a Korean EV. The Smart and MG brands have a European connotation, they are well-known brands, and even Chinese ones now, that can facilitate sales. Even Polestar is "associated" with Volvo, the old Swedish brand. To buy Chinese, an unknown brand, and take the risk of not being able to resell it, you need very good reasons, a big discount on the price for example.

[danielmadar]

Thanks. The reason as you said: price.
Other reasons: Many Westerners don't want Chinese brands as an opposition to the Chinese regime (human rights, military aggression, autocracy, supply chains, anti-western rhetoric, etc), as an opposition to the Chinese car industry taking over the world.

[wintho]

Living in Germany and owning a BYD Dolphin I can say that it is not a problem of the cars. There are only around 10 really active stores. Most of them are still under construction. The active ones are overloaded by Work. MG has 100+ dealers.

[wy]

BYD is too expensive there in Germany. This may be attributed to BYD as a marketing error but there could be a deeper story, one that relates China’s global strategy on EVs. The Chinese govt at present does not want to put on excessive pressure on legacy German car makers but to just establish a presence.

[helmutm.]

Like you already said, BYD in Germany is much too expensive. The Atto 3 for examble costs 42 000 - 46 000 Euro. In addition, many people here don't know this brand yet. The loading speed is also very slow, ect.... I'd like to buy me a BYD but not for the Money they ask for. BYD still has a lot of homework to do to be able to sell more cars in Germany

[orand]

I testdrove NIO ET6 a few days ago. It's a really nice, well-built car. But the price isn't competitive, the car without battery costs the same as a long range Model 3 which already includes the battery. Yes, the build quality is great but it is also much heavier ... all in all the car (including battery) seems to be approx 20 kEUR too expensive. I'm not surprised it's hard to sell. Without battery the battery rent was something around 275 € monthly which is ridiculous. The price is a pitty, as it's a nice car.

[greghudson]

One thing that might possibly be hurting BYD sales in some countries could be the lack of a free trade agreement with china (like we have here in Australia). There is also no local car manufacturing here, so the chinese don't get hit with protectionist taxes to save Aussie jobs (because there aren't any). Just my opinion...

[michaelbedard]

More then double they charge China. Dolphin $18, 000 US 😢 Price is King.

[undisclosedthai]

In Europe, there are many choices of EVs, so no need to buy "Chinese products" / "Chinese crap" (or any words).
In Thailand, it is opposite. When we don't want Chinese EVs and can't afford Western EVs, we need to waiting for Japanese automakers to make and sell EVs.

[tercioannunciado]

In Brazil BYD is top selling EV cars around 1300 vehicles sold per month! They will start a local plant in end 2024, the expectation is the price goes down

[defrigge]

I'm only one German, but from all my talk with others I can tell you that the predominant German feeling towards China is not fear (which we have as well), but real anger and rejection. We now understand that Angela Merkel made a HUGE strategic mistake to treat China as a trustworthy economic partner for German car sales and general trade in China, when in reaility, like so many others experienced, business with China is mainly a one way ticket: they have controlled their import with all sorts of centralized state shenanigans (including heavy idea theft based on well origanized economic state espionage), while massively pushing export with more of that kind, including dumping prices to kill the European solar market. European leaders let them get away with that, in blind hope for good trade in other areas. Now Europe and Germany are completely busted concerning key future technologies. Many Germans are utterly disillusioned about China now, and I for one will outright boycott Chinese products as much as I can, and NEVER buy a Chinese car - no matter how good and cheap they may be. I think we Germans and Europeans have to fight a fundamental fight for economical and democratic survival against China, which has become an imperialistic economical and political despotic monster state, playing dirty Xi Jinping games without any rules 24/7.

[bsaxman]

Just for clarification, the MG Rowe vehicles sold in Germany include PHEVs.

[bigboy-ffm]

It's not only the price
I had an (early) Atto 3 for 2 days to test:
- software was confusing and needed a lot of improvements
- open cables in engine bay = might cause electrical problems with humidity
- playful design - but lack of practicality e. g. useful and spacious storage spaces -
- long term guarantees like hyundai/ Kia needed
- who will provide reliable service ?
- which of those Chinese brands will still be alive in 10 years?
- will there be a reliable delivery for replacement parts in 15 years?
....

[marcg]

The MG4 sells reasonably well. I see some every day here where I live.