Self Driving Cars Are Still Science Fiction

We do a tech Wednesday video Level 2 and 3 Assisted driving focusing on GMs latest super cruise system. We dive into the good and bad of how it helps, what is real, and what is science fiction. Needless to say, great marketing can't make cars safely drive without human help.

#cars #selfdriving #tech

[Snouser]

LOL alright I cant take this dude speaking like a trained AI or computer/hardware scientist; has no idea heuristically what hes talking about. Really? all cars need to be on a communicative network syncing perfectly for FSD?

[mikekratz]

The largest cell provider in Canada, Rogers, went off line for at least a whole day in all of Canada two weeks ago. Even 9-1-1 did not work in some areas. This is the second time this has happened in two years. I would not want to be on the 401 (North America's busiest highway) full of connected cars when this happens again.

[chrisfreemesser]

I've worked in IT my entire life and without a doubt, the general public has way too much faith in technology. History has shown that things can sometimes be made better by adding tech...replacing carbs with EFI improves performance and reliability, ABS improves emergency braking, etc. However, there comes a point when you exceed the "optimal" amount of tech, and that's when things become dangerous...people become complacent and put their faith in a system that can't possibly be 100% foolproof.

I can see having a network of separate highways just for fully autonomous commercial use, but no way would I ever trust a passenger vehicle to drive itself on a regular road.

[brianmiller]

I'm a retired sw engineer with a long career in commercial aerospace and defense. I'd like to offer my expertise to off this perspective.
Let's compare self-driving cars with trans-Atlantic flights where the pilots use 'autopilot'. Ground radar track flights, and traffic controllers inform pilots of potential hazards. Pilots don't have to be concerned about children riding bicycles into their lane, for example. There's no comparison between the on-going training between pilots and auto drivers.
Care to think about how this tech will age? All aircraft are rigorously maintained, while same cannot be said for autos.
Software used in commercial flights must be rigorously tested and FAA qualified prior to installation, whereas the same standards don't apply to 'over the net' updates in autos

I think it's fair to say that the engineering solution of a self-driving car would be ... roughly two orders of magnitude more difficult than planes autopilots. Savage Geese is correct in that getting to true self-driving would require massive government intrusion into transportation as well. Count me out.

[splewy]

I’ve said it from the beginning that no matter how good the tech gets, the liability issue will always prevent full self driving from being a thing. If a FSD vehicle collides with another vehicle or person, then the manufacturer is legally responsible. No manufacturer is going to be willing to take on that legal burden.

Imagine if just one FSD vehicle ran over a pedestrian and killed them. You would have a multi-million dollar payout to the victim’s family, a full stop sale on that vehicle until the software issue is addressed, weeks of terrible media coverage (likely tanking brand reputation), and possibly even criminal charges against the company’s quality control execs.

Now why would any company want to expose themselves to that, just to deliver a feature that most people don’t even want that badly to begin with?

[stevensimunov]

I've been working in IT for almost 30 years and just getting business software to run correctly after constant upgrades and changes is a huge challenge. Self driving is not realistic. Plus, the amount of data that needs to be collected and processed in real time is tremendous and far outstrips what is realistically available.

[Handsanitzer]

As a person who’s worked as an autonomous vehicle test driver, I agree with what’s been said in this video. We are probably a decade away before even level 3 autonomy comes to the market.

[josefgordon]

But Elon said he was VERY confident that robo taxis would be everywhere like 5 years ago and it would be financial suicide to not buy a Tesla! 😭

[okankyoto]

Finally a discussion on this stuff that is connected to actual reality! Theres such a huge disconnect between what is promised and what is actually happening its like people are taking crazy pills. Despite the marketing its really more like an airplane autopilot- where you do have to be fully-vested in managing the automation and knowing what and when its taking control of. Miles from pod cars like people imagine.

[RamCruiserOverland]

I’m a mechanic for a dealership collision shop. Calibrating ADAS, resetting systems, and scanning cars has become the bulk of my job over the past few years. This has added a lot of expense to the repair process, and I can’t imagine these cars being on the road for as long as we’ve been previously used to. Even a simple wheel alignment can now entail calibrating lane cameras and resetting stability control. And despite all these safety systems, people still crash. We’ve never been busier.

[Lazirus]

Thank you for making this brutally honest discussion. The shot of it merging despite an Equinox coming into the same space drives the point home that consumers can't fully trust this technology. I don't want to put my family's life into the hands of technology that works _most_ of the time.

[Clockwork]

As a Tesla Model 3 Performance owner that refuses to pay for FSD in its current iteration, I can't believe the number of people that have fallen for Elon's promises. I'm actually surprised that there hasn't been some kind of lawsuit. There have been people that have paid for the option, had their vehicle for years, and then sold it without ever seeing the technology fully realized. It's such a joke and some people eat it up and ask for more.

[Mike-fnrx]

No way in my lifetime will a car pick you up and drive you in poor visibility conditions and/or icey conditions. The idea that a car will come without a steering wheel is crazy. Even in the I robot movie, a steering wheel was an option.

[gettcouped]

This is a good discussion point to have and much appreciated. I’m sure the Tesla fans will come brigading over and poke holes in your arguments, but much of this video brings up great points and reality checks that we are a long way away from full autonomy. Again you are doing your best with the technical background you have to state the limitations and criteria that, in your educated opinion, will need to be overcome for a full self driving experience.

To me the really annoying thing is when companies try to take clearly defined criteria and fudge thing for a competitive marketing advantage. Literally turning facts into fiction so stonks can go up.

[sleepyguy]

Totally agree with savagegeese on this. I'm not some computer vision, AI developer but I am a software engineer. We literally can't barely even have automatic trains yet. And they run on tracks in a much more controlled environment and still have drivers. There a a million more variables with actual cars mixed in with non computer driven cars, bikes for us to get to the point where you can just fall asleep in a car and 100% of the time get where you are going to go.

[joseacuna]

I feel the most aid I’ll be comfortable with is adaptive cruise control. The rest is just something we all as community don’t really need right now.

[MaxwellWilliams]

Having a level 2 system in my Tesla (EAP package) is great for highway drives for me, as an accessibility feature. I use hand controls to drive because I'm paralyzed, but after a while my shoulders get exhausted from holding the wheel. Being able to relax slightly is excellent. I never stop babysitting the car on the highway, but it's nice to be able to look further ahead rather than focus on micro adjustments all the time. I definitely drive slower than I used to -- going above 75 in Autopilot makes me uncomfortable especially since the freeways curve a lot in my area.

[jeffc]

I grew up working on roller coasters, which basically are fully autonomous (you press a green button and a PLC actually runs the ride), and there are hundreds of sensors along the rides track. Anyone that frequently visits theme parks will tell you rides break down all the time. When you have all of these little electronics all working in synchronization with each other all it takes is one dumb little thing to shut the whole thing down. It's funny he brings up bright light on a sensor messing up Tesla's, that same thing happened on Incredible Hulk. When the sun was in a certain spot every day it would shine right into the gamma tube and hit a sensor at the exact wrong angle and bring the ride down every day. The sensor had to be moved and the whole ride reprogrammed.

[cbatiau]

Regarding easing of fatigue (5:20), I find that ACC alone is really excellent at reducing fatigue on long road trips. You still have to steer and be alert, but not having to step on the brakes when there's a slow-down in front of you -- especially in tedious, slow, stop-and-go traffic -- really makes it easier for me to do 800-mile drives in a single day, whereas 300-400 miles would be really tough for me (fatigue-wise) without ACC. I have yet to see a car that steers well by computer, and even when my cars have been equipped with that (and some have), I never turn it on; I just don't feel comfortable trusting car computers with steering. Even with ACC, I'm very alert and don't totally trust the car to slow down properly or stop quickly enough in all cases (but ACC today is quite good among the car brands that I own -- Toyota, Volvo, Porsche).

[jvepps]

No doubt the amount of construction and non-standard signage/road markings would make it impossible.