Eli Ayala vs R.C. Sproul's Criticisms of Presup

In this episode, Eli will interact with some of the criticisms of presuppositionalism put forth by the late great R.C. Sproul. #sproul #ligonier #presup #apologetics

[herobornmusic]

Thanks for the content again! Gonna rewatch to chew on all the meats!!! Wonderful discussion! Gonna go digest some previous studies of yours, RC Sproul, Greg B and alot of other theologians 😅 found Jeff the unturbaned ninja Durbin and James White through True Christian Ministries and I had all this knowledge without terminology structure and I love how everything fell into place what I believed without knowing it had proper terminology, this has truly been the year of discipline and resolve i declared it at new years for me and all the saints, I didn't realize I would become a reformed soldier of Christ, biblical theologian and philosophical apologist. Those are the titles I hold to and I don't claim a denomination for I am of the body of Christ being represented bigger then a singular office, I float amongst the doctrines of all denominations and love discovering knowledge and pondering upon non-fundemental doctrine! Your becoming one of my favorites as well my friend 🙏 Praise God and God bless!

[christianmonarchist]

These kinds of videos are the most helpful to me. Thanks!

[coffeeman_andrew]

I heard they dropped your lessons at Apologia, looking forward to seeing them. CONGRATS brother Eli God bless!

[coffeeman_andrew]

I find it very helpful when you do a critique of arguments like this. It helps me to figure out how to apply the presup method in a practical way.

[fredbutler]

In response to the Q of whether or not Joh MacArthur was a presuppositionalist, yes, he is. It was the methodology I was taught at TMS. Our main text was Van Tils Defense of the Faith.

[kstingray]

Great stuff as usual, Eli! These response videos are valuable, so yes, keep doing them. I would like to see you do a response to the book Sproul wrote with Gersner and Lindsley as a critique of Presuppositional Apologetics. I've always loved the teaching of R.C. Sproul. He had such an engaging personality that made learning theology so fun. Bahnsen was the same. Put those two in a room together, and it would be endless fun theology learning. It's too bad they never had much more public interaction after that 1977 debate, at least that I'm aware of.

[nelidascott]

Thanks for everything that you do! Can I just mention that I recently listened to your conversation with TJump and I really appreciate your patience to sit through all that!!! But you’ve proven to be formidable in dismantling his incoherent argument, which is always the case if we don’t presuppose God. We should continue to pray for these lost souls..❤

[Janice-d-witnessing]

This was great, thanks Eli. I totally agree - love, love, love Dr. Sproul though he was wrong on this issue. For anyone who wants to read his work, I highly recommend _The Holiness of God._ Such a beautiful work. I think Mike Winger is great too. I'd love to see the two of you have a deeper discussion about presup. Or one about soteriology would be awesome, too.

[gabrielteo]

How would a presup know his revelation is from God instead of his own imagination? What does revelation feel like?

[MrNanonen]

I’ve listened to about 700 of Bahnsen’s audio recordings. I really enjoy his style and the way he expresses it.

[theoglossa]

Thank you brother. You mentioned Bahnsen's words that Sproul in his book didn't provide accurate critique of Presup. Can you point us to resources that accurately do so (if any)?

[obed-edom]

This is a comment late in the game, but when Sproul says we can't help but begin with our our self consciousness and reason to God, doesn't that suggest that humanity has no initial self-consciousness knowledge of God? What then does the natural man suppress, given Romans 1? I doubt Sproul would argue that humans reason to God on their own steam, given his understanding of Roman's 1, yet that is what he seems to imply. Any thoughts?

[mattdoyle]

As for Martin Luther (a poster not the real one), the lawsuit against Bahnsen and one of his sons needs context. It is by his adopted daughter who for the last 10 years has also been threatening David Bahnsen (the well-known son) who is not even named in this recent lawsuit. David has told her oto pound sand. On top of that, she has also threatened the Bahnsen Institute with a suit and they too have told her to do the same. If you get the impression that you should "follow the money honey" you could be onto something.

On top of everything else, remember Martin Luther (not), one is innocent until proven guilty not only under our law but Biblical law as well.

[jason]

This was really helpful Eli. I enjoyed your responses pertaining to RC. I googled the bansen lawsuit thing. It seems to me that Greg disciplined via paddling, but I didnt see anything where he is guilty of anything. The son Jon, it seems, may be guilty of some things.

[Gisbertus_Voetius]

The different schools name themselves "presuppositional" but differ greatly in approach. There is the somewhat hybrid Schaeffer. And there is the fideistic stream of Naugle and Sire. There is the vantillian and the clarkian side. There is Frame. And all are called "presuppositional".

[emmanuelsimon]

I know you explained the issue of circularity a countless number of times, so forgive me as I'm still wrapping my head around it. By circularity on a foundational level, do we mean that it is self attesting, i.e. that an understanding of the subject and predicate of the statement means that the statement must be true, and that a rejection of it leads to an absurdity? (Hence our foundations are proven indirectly via reductio and absurdum?)

[Gisbertus_Voetius]

"Christianity is a system, a view of things that is conceived as a connected whole. If you break off a major concept from it, faith in God, you break up the whole as well: there are no necessities left to hold onto anymore. Christianity presupposes that human beings do not know, cannot know, what is good and evil for them: they believe in God, who is the only one who knows it. Christian morality is a commandment; its origin is transcendent; it is beyond all criticism, all right to criticism; it is true only if God is truth—it stands and falls with faith in God."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, Raids of an Untimely Man, 5.

[GodID]

Once I heard you recommending a book from Dr. Bahnsen that recapitulates his lectures or something like that.

Would you please give the name?

[jason]

I was just listening to some older Bahnsen tapes and he was talking about how child abusers should be put to death. So I think these are false accusations, and the person suing is just trying to do a money grab. I'm really disturbed that these accusation are being made against Greg.

[thebanneredmare]

What is this about a bahnsen lawsuit? I am unaware