The Missing 411 Cases We Couldn't Solve

Over the last two years, we've done about a dozen deep dives on Missing 411 cases, as well as an analysis of the entire theory. We came to the surprising conclusion that most of these cases do have explanations that, while often gruesome, are entirely mundane. Aaron Hedges was detoxing, Bobby Bizup was assaulted, Kenny Veach got lost in the desert, etc...but not all of them are so simple. For this video, we selected five that not only defy all explanation, but also seem to be connected in some ways. Welcome back to The Lore Lodge...

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0:00 - What Is Missing 411?
6:55 - Jim McGrogan's "Ski Accident"
20:53 - Bart Schleyer's "Hunting Mishap"
34:10 - Fred and Dave's Not So Excellent Adventure
38:59 - Garret Bardsely's Fishing Trip
50:39 - Stacy Arras's "Kidnapping"
1:00:34 - Analysis

[glamdawling]

Based on the evidence presented, I think it is Wendigoon who is responsible for these disappearances.

[makenzierose]

The idea of being one of the last people to interact with someone who completely disappears is haunting. Imagining being Garret’s father or the friends Jim went skiing with (or literally in anyone who saw the people before they disappeared) is horrifying. How often do they think about how things could have ended differently if they had done something slightly different? That’s got to weigh really heavily on those people.

[noahshaq]

Will never understand splitting up from the group. If something happens by yourself that’s one thing, but to diverge from the perceived safety of a large group to go at it alone is a mind numbingly stupid move. Start together finish together.

[EvelynnEleonore]

As a German, I think I have a pretty good idea of why Germans go missing a lot in national parks- Hiking here is really, really safe. Unless you're talking about going up in the alps or off the beaten path, being out in the 'wilderness' here could give people- especially people who love to hike, and would go do that in the national parks- an unexpected confidence in their ability to tackle more challenging hikes out in the north-american wild. I grew up hiking, and before I read some books by american hikers, I would've probably made the same mistake coming over!

[KibuFox]

I lived in Salt Lake City when Garret went missing. I remember hearing one theory about his vanishing that suggested he'd wandered off to fish a stream coming out of Cuberant Lake, and became disoriented. He wandered around some looking for the trail once more, only to have it start to rain. It's theorized that he took shelter in an old mine (that area is littered with them), and fell through an open shaft.

[Perepeteia]

Idk if anyone mentioned it but Tatiana and Tanya are the same name in ru, Tatiana is a full form and Tanya is a shorter version you'd use when talking to a child or - in a casual setting - to someone u r already very familiar w(a friend, a relative, sometimes maybe an old acquaintance). So Tatiana is Tanya

[icemanm]

@ 27:23 I have to disagree with you here, I think someone's grandmother would be about four times more effective at attempting to find their grandson.

[ReconPro]

Me alone at a National Park, at 2 pm, without checking the weather, or personal locator beacon, near a body of water, in an area where others have gone missing, etc


*"Mr. Paulides, I don't feel so good"*

[MrTigerlore]

I’ve hiked around the mountains in Vail Valley at night. The lights of Vail are such an easy reference to figure out where you are. In fact, I have rarely gotten nervous because the lights of Vail, the highway, and even the snow grooming vehicles on the ski hills are a constant reference point. The semi-trucks are also loud and give you an audible reference point for the highway.

[CombinedProductions]

18:53 last time i went skiing, which was also the first time i went skiing, on my first run down the smallest slope, i managed to flip head over heels and speared myself on my ski pole - thankfully the blunt side, but directly to my heart. let's just say i didn't go down the slope again

[photobombr]

I love how you guys are open to admitting oversight or being wrong and often actually drop revisions and have a open door policy for critique. My favorite "Pseudoscience Channel" 👌🏾

[orionpax]

I think one thing that gets overlooked, or maybe just not adequately addressed, when talking about these kinds of cases, is that people just don't act logically much of the time, especially under duress/stress/etc. We all try to explain possible behavior of these people in these situations, but the simple truth is, the vast majority of the time, other people just don't act in a way most of us would consider logical. And that's not even taking into account panic, anxiety, mental health issues, whatever. We try to explain behavior because we desperately need to believe we are rational creatures; we simply are not.

There are still going to be plenty of cases that aren't explained by this, but the truth is, we'll never actually know what happened in most of these situations purely because we are not the person that was there.

[NUFAN]

Something else to consider, the people that aren't acclimated to high elevations. It may not seem like a big deal, but it can absolutely kick your butt, make you irritable, and possibly disoriented if you're really struggling with it. Olympic athletes come to the Rockies to train because of the elevation. I've seen at least two touring performers have to stop mid-show because the elevation was making it impossible for them to breath. One of them was Lemmy. I'm an experienced high elevation hiker and couldn't make it halfway up an "easy" foothill hike after being at sea level for three years. So, combine extreme cold and high elevation with an inexperienced hiker/skier, and I could see them getting in trouble if they get separated from a group.

[platonicvulpine]

Honestly, I can 100% see Jim just starting off, getting lost, and continuing on 'cos "he's on an adventure".

I know plenty people like that and I know they would easily bumble into some very dangerous situations without realising it.

[Morncreek]

Never underestimate panic. It takes a bit of time before a person finally admits to themself that they are lost. Once the panic hits, it can result in truly bizarre behavior.

[bigmateria]

In my opinion, the one particularly incomprehensible similarity shared by many Missing 411 cases, is despite how massive, thorough, professionally organized and well equipped the initial search and rescue efforts can become, how often they end up just finding nothing, no missing person, no body, or even any viable evidence, despite their valiant efforts...

And then, some months or even years later, some unassuming individual or group of hikers hunters, or campers will suddenly happen upon some case breaking evidence or even the missing ones remains, seemingly at random.

In cases such as this, obvious questions arise, where the hell were the missing ones during the time between the initial search efforts and when the evidence or body was found?
What were they doing in that time? How had they completely eluded the massive search efforts?
All of the answers to which are very likely to be as confusing and disturbing as they are horrifying.

[loremipsum]

When I was younger, 12 or so, my family went camping in a state forest with my cousins and some of their friends. While my younger brother and I were exploring the trails with another kid, I saw my dad through the trees, gesturing angrily for me to follow him as he walked further into the woods. It was very much him, wearing his favorite shirt and his workout glasses. My brother and the kid didn’t see him, but my brother believed me. We tried not to make our dad angry when we could avoid it, but the kid wanted to go back. We watched him leave the woods and get pretty close to camp before we crossed through the trees to the trail dad was on and followed it to the end, a lakeside beach. He wasn’t anywhere.
We started looking around to see where he could have gone when my dad, in a different shirt and his reading glasses, stormed down the trail behind us and started shouting. He’d been at camp the whole time, and was livid we’d sent that kid back alone to go down a path he hadn’t approved of ahead of time.
Later that week, my cousin and I had to bolt up a sandy cliff-thing for a half a mile or so to escape from some weird guy who was following us, so my brother just chalked it up to me not getting a good look at the man we followed through the thick trees and actually seeing that weird stalker, but I know what I saw. Whatever we followed, it looked just like my dad. I still can’t explain it, but I’m glad we stopped going there.

[tinkerstrade]

Late to the party, but on the Dr. McGrogan case, I think it was panic. Under stress I've seen people just spring into un- thought- out actions you would never expect. People that have high stress jobs often can't cope with losing control of a situation.

[sergent]

Remind me to never go missing in Canada

[unofficiallymykie]

The only theory that makes sense to me with Garret's case is that he was taken by someone he knew and trusted.
The odds of a stranger forcibly abducting him in broad daylight without him calling out or anyone seeing are slim to none, but if Garret knew the person it would probably be pretty easy to convince him to follow them.