Why We Can't Think Biblically About It: Women In Ministry part 1

For years I've refused to answer the question about women in ministry. Because I worried I might be wrong and was fearful of how big of an impact my teaching can have in the life of another. I take that issue very seriously.

I spent the last few months doing an in depth research project on women in ministry. My goal was to read the best egalitarian scholars on the topic and see if I might change my position. To be totally open with you, I actually WANTED to become egalitarian. That may sound strange to some but I'm just being honest about my own motivations. Now that my research is close to done, I'm going to present you with the "Women in Ministry" series; a thorough and systematic study of the topic, looking at all relevant biblical passages, historical research, linguistic studies and philosophical concerns, interacting with the most recent scholarship on the issue (and there is a lot of it). This will be a somewhat exhaustive series to go over everything the Bible teaches on the topic and engage in all the important debates you will want to know about. Each video will cover different issues/passages of Scripture and I'll try to present the content in a way that helps you make informed decisions for yourself and not just to parrot me.

But I'm not interested being one of those people who pretends they don't have their own opinions on the topic. So, after months of focused research, here are my general conclusions; which I will go on to support with great detail over the next 10 videos. I think egalitarian views (which hold there are simply no role differences related to authority between men and women in the government of the church) are obviously false. I mean that I went into this study hoping I'd see really strong and thoughtful cases for egalitarian views from top scholars and I saw, over and over again, insufficient evidence, poor reasoning, inconsistent positions and bad Bible study practices. I don't say ANY of that as a way of slapping at the sincerity or good will of those scholars. I think many of these scholars are strongly committed to Jesus and are my genuine brothers and sisters in Christ. But, as a result of studying this topic in detail, hoping to change my own mind and focusing on the work of egalitarian scholars, I am actually far more confidently complementarian than I was before.

However, I have changed my mind on some important issues and would consider my self a "soft complementarian" who holds that the biblical role of "elder" is reserved for men but that women have been FAR too restricted in other ways because of clumsy and incomplete views of complementarians, and sometimes simply because Christians aren't quite sure where to draw the lines so they are overly cautious and unnecessarily limiting to women (and often to themselves). What I'm saying here is that I agree with many egalitarian complaints about abuses, restrictions and general disrespect toward women that has been too common in complementarian circles. I've seen it first hand many times and I think Scripture offers us needed correction.

So, I am rather firm in saying egalitarian interpretations are generally flawed but that complementarians have much to refine and even remove from their own views, though the biblical core remains quite sound. I offer the above explanation as I introduce this series simply because I respect your intelligence and want to be as open as possible with you all.

In today's video I'll walk through the biggest reason why I'm not egalitarian as I discuss philosophical beliefs that egalitarians often bring into the debate which make it impossible for them to be open to following the Bible if it leads toward complementarian views. I'll try to apply this standard fairly on both sides and set a tone for the debate that refuses to use polemics, ethics or philosophy in a way that taints our opinions before we approach the biblical text and ask "what should I think about this?"

[MikeWinger]

Dr. Groothuis is pronounced “Growt-hice” (I think)
I’m sorry I got it wrong!

[justinharrell]

"You cannot bypass the Bible." - That's the takeaway for me. I find in most issues where there is debate, people are doing just that....bypassing the Bible and appealing to some other authority.

[mimhahn]

Can't put into words how refreshing it is to hear a pastor that doesn't submit to culture. I know it's certainly not the easy road! Thank you. 🙏

[Sirkento]

"This video series is for people who want to submit to God, so that's the price of entry."
Such a beautiful statement! Come seeking God not justification for your veiws. good!! I'm mostly complementarian but I am here to learn and grow and unafraid to follow the truth the best I can. Both sides can do this, it is just a simple decision of your heart to trust God more than yourself. Thank you Pastor Mike!!

[dahelmang]

This sort of series is why I trust Mike so much. He is not afraid to change his mind to agree with Scripture. That is where we all should try to be.

[alisachilders]

Great work, Mike! Really looking forward to listening to the rest of the series.

[Meg_]

Pastor Mike, as a Christian woman who has very much struggled with these issues (wanting to be egalitarian as well) I can’t tell you how incredibly thankful I am for your voice presenting a loving, thorough, Bible-centered, nuanced approach to these issues. This series is SO helpful and I know it’s not the popular subject to tackle but it has really helped me understand these issues for myself. Thank you!!!

[matthewpalm]

"Now that I'm thinking about it I might make the whole world angry.."

The price of serving truth. Thank you Mike.

[cryptojihadi]

"There is a large debate among scholars"

I've always said it takes at least a masters, if not a PHD to figure out how to get the Bible to mean the exact opposite of what it actually says.

[musanetesakupwanya]

Man, that whole "bypassing the Bible" concept, by itself has challenged me so much!!! WOW!! This really helps think about this topic in a more measured way, cos it instantly picks out where our sources come from.

[charleswolfe]

As to the question of WHY so much of the Church doesn't reason biblically about this issue, I'm reminded of a quote from Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get someone to understand something when their salary depends on them not understanding it."

[ryanhoward]

Sadly, there can be harsh divisions even within degrees of complementarianism. I minister with a church that has taken a soft complementarian view (basically, women can do anything but be the preaching/senior minister or an elder), and we have been shunned by all the other churches from our denomination in the area who take very strict complementarian views on this issue. We would love to associate with them, but they don’t want anything to do with us. It’s heartbreaking to see people divide over secondary doctrinal issues. I appreciate your honesty and your heart. I, too, wanted so badly for years to hold an egalitarian view, but I simply couldn’t get around what Scripture says on the issue. I’m looking forward eagerly to the rest of this series!

[WholeBibleWithGeorgeCrabb]

It's not even about complementarian versus egalitarian views. It is about What God Says through his word. Excellent teaching! I recommended the rest of our elder board to watch this series.

[carolgibson]

Thank you for taking this topic on! I am a 72-year-old woman who is quite happy being a woman and submitting to God-given authority, I can hardly wait to hear the rest. God bless you Mike!

[daviddufty]

Hey Mike,

Thanks so much for the video.

I am an egalitarian who used to be a complementarian. My experience of this debate thus far has largely been one of feeling isolated. When I was a complementarian - people told me that I REALLY believed what I believed not from my reading of scripture, but because I was a male chauvinist who wanted women to be oppressed. Once my studies led me to become egalitarian (it looks like you are going to be covering the same passages and arguments - so I'm all ears for what you have to say), I found that complementarians told me that I REALLY just wanted to bow to the world and I was twisting scripture to do so.

I've heard many egalitarians ride off complementarian men as bullies who abuse their wives. I've heard complementarians ride off egalitarian men as wimps who take no responsibility and are door mats for their wives.

I was not looking forward to this series as I was worried you would ride off the other side with same strawman arguments as has been done before (particularly on youtube and the internet). I may have come to different conclusions to you (thus far - I reserve the right to be wrong and to change my mind), but I agree with what you said in this video - it was a breath of fresh air on this debate.

[phlaxus]

​Mike, besides all the biblical knowledge you share, what im learning from you all the time, is the love you put in to teach these biblical truths. You are doing a great job! Praise the Lord!

[ValkyrieWarrior]

Hi Mike, 45 year old female Christian, 40 years saved. I've been non denominational, Presbyterian, Nazarene, and am now a recovering independent Baptist fundamentalist. I'm also a "Deborah", my spiritual gifts being discernment, prophecy (not in the prophesying sense), and administration. I've always been complementarian, but the range was dictated by the denomination I was in; obviously IBF was pretty unscriptural. All I've ever wanted is for someone to tell me BASED ON SCRIPTURE what my role in the church is. I think I've finally found it. Thank you so much and keep up the good work!!!

[danielduerkop]

Thanks so much Mike. I’ve been struggling with this topic for over a year now and I’m looking forward to hearing an understandable Biblical response.

[oliviajones]

Mike, thank you so much for tackling this. As a woman, I feel the need for a thoughtful, careful, and comprehensive teaching of this issue. Thank you for being willing to take on the work and push-back to provide the biblical clarity that is severely lacking. Blessings on you and your ministry.

[itzesmi]

God's word doesn't change, humanity does, society has become more and more progressive and it's seeping into the church and try to twist the Bible into fitting into our needs.
I agree pastor Mike