Erasing Fears & Traumas Based on the Modern Neuroscience of Fear

In this episode, I discuss fear and trauma, including the neural circuits involved in the "threat reflex" and how specific experiences and memories come to activate that system. I also discuss how our body is involved in trauma and fear. First, I describe the logic of fear mechanisms and how "top-down" processing-- meaning connections from the parts of the brain that assign meaning to our feelings, are involved in fear and erasing fears and traumas. Then I discuss what successful fear and trauma treatment must include and consider various treatments for whether they meet that standard, such as EMDR, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Ketamine and other drug-assisted therapies and more. I also review new data on how 5 minutes per day of deliberate, self-imposed stress can erase fear and depression. And I review the role that social connection plays in erasing or maintaining fears by activating specific molecular pathways in the brain and body. Finally, I review supplementation with over-the-counter compounds for their effects on anxiety and fear and when to take them, if at all.

#fear #trauma #stress

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Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introducing Fear, Trauma & Trauma
00:02:15 Athletic Greens, InsideTracker, Helix Sleep
00:06:49 What is Fear?
00:11:45 Autonomic Arousal: “Alertness” vs. “Calmness”
00:13:44 Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis (HPA axis)
00:17:36 “The Threat Reflex”: Neural Circuits for Fear
00:28:24 Controlling Fear: Top-Down Processing
00:32:27 Narratives: “Protective or Dangerous”
00:35:58 Attaching Fear to Events: Classical Conditioning & Memory
00:41:45 How Fear Learning Occurs: Long Term Potentiation, NMDA
00:46:10 Extinguishing (Reducing) Fears
00:50:25 Cognitive (Narrative) Therapies for Fear
00:57:56 Repetition of Narrative, Overwriting Bad Experiences with Good
01:05:28 EMDR: Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing
01:14:00 Social Connection & Isolation Are Chemically Powerful
01:18:23 Trans-Generational Trauma
01:25:00 PTSD Treatments: Ketamine, MDMA, oxytocin
01:39:25 How Do You Know If You Are Traumatized?
01:46:16 Deliberate Brief Stress Can Erase Fears & Trauma
01:49:50 Erasing Fears & Traumas In 5 Minutes Per Day
01:59:42 Nutrition, Sleep, & Other General Support Erasing Fear & Trauma
02:02:30 Supplements for Anxiety, Fear: Saffron, Inositol, Kava
02:10:00 Synthesis
02:11:46 Zero-Cost Support, Sponsors, Patreon, Supplements, Instagram, Twitter

Please note that The Huberman Lab Podcast is distinct from Dr. Huberman's teaching and research roles at Stanford University School of Medicine. The information provided in this show is not medical advice, nor should it be taken or applied as a replacement for medical advice. The Huberman Lab Podcast, its employees, guests and affiliates assume no liability for the application of the information discussed.

[teeqo]

You've single handedly changed me & my mindset since I found your channel just over a month ago. Thank you for your amazing videos.

[hwhite]

EMDR changed my life!! After years of talking about my trauma, I felt like it wasn't helpful at all. I used EMDR for sexual assaults and abuse in my late 20s. The technique used was talking about my trauma until my body was in such a heightened state of stress that the feelings I felt while experiencing it were at the forefront of my emotions. It was then followed by focusing on that pain and stress with no talking while my therapist had me follow her fingers back and forth or tapping on my knees. It was extremely hard, both mentally and emotionally. After 9 months, I eventually stopped bc I couldn't handle the stress. But I do remember one morning I woke up and could immediately tell I had a shift in my thoughts. Instead of waking up in misery, I saw life and the beauty of it. Everything was so bright, and I felt hope for the first time in years. The benefits were absolutely worth it. I recently used EMDR last year, in my 40s, and the technique was completely different. I had to think of a painful traumatic event that I constantly thought of. I never talked about the traumatic event. I merely wrote a defining statement about it. I would tie a negative cognition and negative feelings followed by following a ball on a computer screen. I would gauge the pain on a scale from 0-7. I continued following the ball until I was at a zero. I would then follow up with a positive cognition and positive feeling, then repeat the process. This was the most powerful healing I've ever experienced. I now believe talk therapy isn't as effective. I am thankful for this shift in my mind. I am moving forward in my life and have even stopped drinking. I no longer crave alcohol as a coping mechanism. I truly believe people suffering from addiction should work on the causes first before even trying to stop using. The recent technique used came from Peter Walkers, book Complex PTSD. I used this for multiple traumas I lived through in my life, not just a single event. I hope someone reading this will feel encouraged to try it!

[LoveDylan]

Look at all the people you are lifting up, Andrew Huberman. Every podcast is a treasure. We appreciate you.

[ishitalamba]

Being a clinical psychologist trained in emdr, I had a few contentions -

1. Prolonged exposure does not involve any relearning and is effective in animals and not humans because whenever we're faced with fear, we cognitively engage in coping mechanisms like perfectionist thinking, catastrophising and planning for the future. In exposure, we're simply doing exactly what we do when we're overthinking and are caught up in the default mode network. So we're not facing our fear or going to the very incident where conditioning took place. Prefrontal cortex does not lead to inhibition because it doesn't get activated here.

2. Though some studies have stated that re telling of the trauma narrative can lead to extinction and unlearning of the fear response, this seems oversimplified. Remember that our brain is making associations all the time. Being exposed to therapies like CPT and CBT which involves retelling of the traumatic incident can lead to further traumatisation. As the client is entering sympathetic nervous system mode and is in fight flight or freeze within the therapy session, the therapy room, the therapist's face or anything in the therapy context can get associated to the fear response, further providing a trigger WITHIN the therapy space for the client to be traumatised. Therefore it's essential to have several sessions of what we call 'resourcing' or 'stabilization' so the client has the ability to regulate their own nervous systems to some degree BEFORE the re telling of the traumatic incident is attempted. CPT and CBT do not involve thorough stabilization as in trauma therapies like EMDR and other somatic psychotherapies (ISP, SE, IFS, etc.)

3. Lastly, in EMDR there is a new narrative being formed unlike what you said. There is a separate phase for 'installation' where a positive cognition/meaning is linked with the target memory that led to the symptoms of trauma in the first place. In fact, it is prolonged exposure in which there is no alternative narrative being formed.

To summarise, EMDR, SE and other bottom up approaches are more efficacious when it comes to single or multiple incident traumas as opposed to other top down therapies like CBT and prolonged exposure.

[fembot]

When my husband died suddenly in front of me and I had to perform CPR the event itself was very traumatic. Once that event was over there was a cascade of other traumatic events that followed. Financial stress, health stress for my kids, genetic counsellor, cardiologists, coroners, funeral arrangements, seeing my husband dead at the hospital, lawyers and estate processes, becoming a solo mother etc etc. These cascading traumatic events continued to happen for around 9/10 months afterward. Very rarely are traumatic events one single event. Anxiety creeped up on me and I found myself having a panic attack one day thinking I was dying like my husband did. I didn’t know it was a panic attack at the time. My blood pressure is also through the roof and I cannot control it through diet and exercise so had to start taking medications. When someone you love, who is perfectly healthy, drops dead in front of you after having just made breakfast for the family it shakes your whole world view and identity.

[IvanKrappenchitz]

Emdr clinician here. In emdr, clients do replace the negative belief of the event with a positive (adaptive event) after the desensitization phase. Love the content. I reference these videos often when doing psycho educational groups.

[elizabethwilliams]

Psychedelics are just an exceptional mental health breakthrough. It's quite fascinating how effective they are against depression and anxiety. Saved my life.

[kenliarig]

I am an EMDR client and had what I would call, exceptional results. I spent 4 or 5 years bouncing around to different psychologists/therapists for my PTSD with no success. Finally I learned of EMDR and sought out the treatment.

I was given 3 options for EMDR. I found the "eye light bar" too busy in conjunction with recalling the trauma. 2nd there was vibrating "handles" for lack of better words, that would alternate the vibration in each hand as I recalled the incident. This was very distracting for me. I found I was concentrating more on the handles then the recall of memories. I only tried these 2 methods for maybe 1-2 minutes each. I did not have to repeat the traumatic event several times.
So then we tried the headphones!! Brilliant! The head phones alternated a tone sound back and forth from one ear to the other as I started to recall the negative and highly emotional event.

EMDR was explained to me that these negative memories and responses are attached to one area of the brain and the EMDR will open up the channels to the other side of the brain as to allow to "neutralize" my negative thoughts/response.
I did have a very foggy and relaxed state after both sessions..I did not even remember the drive home. (I did have 5-6 sessions before the actual EMDR started) There was no definitive moment where I said "I'm better now"...it was a gradual realization that "hey I was just in a typical trigger situation but I did not respond negatively". What a great feeling! I've continued to this day to have a literal neutral response to otherwise a typical trigger for me.
I certainly recommend at least giving this therapy a try. I felt I had nothing to lose. For me...I got my life back!

[masonjusticemoore]

Huberman: The big brother, or cool uncle I never had and never knew I needed until he started dropping these gems into the world. Bravo my friend, you are giving us a master's level education in a way that's understandable and free. I'm a therapist is private practice and I use both EMDR and CBT - these videos are a beautiful resource for me and my clients -Thank you

[TheKimbalabala]

I am also an EMDR clinician and have had great results with CPTSD and PTSD. Have you considered interviewing Bessel Van Der Kolk (The Body Keeps the Score) for his input on trauma, PTSD, and EMDR? Love your work and share it with so many clients, friends and family. :)

[oicuwro]

I have CPTSD, starting with early childhood trauma and continuing through early adulthood. I had EMDR combined with NARM therapy. It was incredibly helpful in many ways. I had somatic issues I realized I was causing myself as well as dissociation. It also helped with getting my anxiety and panic attacks under control. I also had cranial sacral therapy, which may seem kinda of hokey, but it helped me recognize and release emotions I was storing in my body. There are still things I struggle with, but I have a much better understanding and awareness of my physical and mental well being. I really enjoy all the helpful information you share, you’ve been incredibly helpful as well ❤

[melindarietkerk]

In response to the content about EMDR, my therapist and I use a tool called 'Future Template' after we complete the initial processing of the traumatic event. Essentially you use the same eye movements while you imagine going back into the scenario and visualize it going well or you being able to respond in a healthy way. You replace the negative cognition about yourself with a positive cognition. It has eased a lot of my social anxiety when public speaking, after a public humiliation experience in my childhood. Thanks for all you do!

[solaceinlarsa]

1:44:55 RIP Costello. You have taught all of us a lot and you've been an indispensable companion and friend.

[allisontosti]

EMDR - in my personal experience, I was able to eliminate the stigma of the traumatic events and reframe or replace the "sticky" memory with a more peaceful one. Now when I reference that painful memory, I am able to visualize and feel the memory that replaced it. In my specific case and I don't mind mentioning specifics... as a child I got in the middle of a fight my parents were having and was hit. It was a memory that haunted me and I couldn't remember anything that happened before or after that. This painful memory and my response to it shaped my life in a way that I would never enter into any type of conflict, and was terrified of getting hit. It caused PTSD in my adult life as well. In an EMDR session I referenced the memory, felt all the painful and scary feelings, and then my therapist guided me to an after scenario that my brain basically made up. I imagined my mother comforting me and holding me after I was hit. Now I am unable to reference the painful memory of getting hit without simultaneously referencing the pleasant memory of being comforted. I am no longer afraid of conflict as well. The impact was huge and all without dissociating - which empowered me in a way that I am able to feel hard feelings and move on. The ability to tolerate pain or stressful situation in my personal and professional life has been pivotal. One thing to note was that the therapist that administered EMDR was my therapist for almost 2 years prior and we had a very special relationship. The type of EMDR we did was tapping on the hands so physical touch from a safe person was involved. I had my eyes closed but they did dart back and forth, faster in an intense emotion. The process does seem to have a crescendo of sorts when going through the most painful parts of your memory and I believe that having a safe person with you while you feel those intense feelings is one of the main keys to this process working. They say that this process does not often work with childhood trauma, but I disagree - although I think your therapist plays a huge part as does your personal journey of processing through the trauma. There is also therapy that you can do yourself with tapping. Peter Levine discusses it in "Healing Trauma" and Laurel Pharnell writes about it in "Tapping In".

[aziza]

Dr Huberman, thank you for providing, so lucidly and so generously, an understanding and practical guidance for dealing with oneself. You are offering an actual roadmap for breaking out of psychological and emotional problems . After years of immersion in the disciplines and philosophies of mindfulness and self-awareness, I find that your podcast is like a final culmination or summing up. I cannot thank you enough for the brilliance, and you must know that you are helping many people immeasurably. Thank you once again.

[marcosabbatini]

This channel touches me in two ways. I'm a repeated trauma survivor (4th stage lynphoma, bone marrow transplant and double lung transplant in the last years) and gaining a Deep understanding of how my chemical, my brain and body work helps a lot in living with It. Second, I work as a coach in similar situations (help people deal with practical, game changing aspects of such diseases) and this is like a PhD in scientific explanation of what goes on through our bodies. No sufficient ways to thank the professor, this is pure gold. Gold for free.

[learninghistory]

I want to advice you all to spend more time with yourselves. Doing nothing other than being by yourselves, seeing what comes to mind and getting to know yourselves. Maybe going for a walk at most while doing this.
It's unbelievable how much this can help you heal any mental issue you have.
Nowadays we can literally spend all day going from one distraction to another, to the point people don't even know who they are, why they feel the way they feel, what they want and so on.

[MissLisaAnne]

Thank you for posting these videos. I suffered a traumatic event on July 12 and 13, 2006. I never recovered from this, but have made extreme efforts. I have "suffered" through some "therapists" who were NOT AT ALL helpful. As a result, I have sought DIY therapy from the web. YOU are so helpful to me, and have helped me more than my past counselors. THX for your videos.

[davidseo]

I just started therapy and this episode is exactly what i needed to hear and learn about before my 2nd therapy session. I know it is going to be very difficult to retell my traumatic events ive gone through to my therapist but now i truly understand how important and crucial it is to eventually be fully open in my sessions. I dont know how i will do it but andrew has helped me see the magnitude of it. Thank you so much.

[jemstar]

I suffered intense bullying in school as a kid then got into a very abusive relationship at 15 that lasted over 5 years. As a result I developed social and agora- phobia. I worked with a therapist and on my own to overcome and change the narrative around these feelings and thoughts of not being 'able' to socialize and was doing really well - in fact, doing things like travelling internationally and attending large public events. During Covid I lost my job for 10 months and was very isolated at home. Once the world opened up again I started feeling apprehension again about going out and being with people. During a birthday trip I planned, I had 2 severe panic attacks and since have reverted to the social anxiety and agoraphobia. I've been having such a hard time because I was doing so well and feel like I lost all that good work I'd put in for years. Thank you for this information. I am working with a therapist who uses Brain Spotting and I will do my best to attend social events again, even if Im scared to re-boot the healing process.