Do Competitive Games Have to Be Complex? [Game Essence]

Competitive games tend to be rather complicated. The same goes for Smash Bros. Ultimate, if you ask me. So...how exactly do we lower the barrier to entry for these kinds of games?

[Dude]

In regards to the segment about Street Fighter 1 at 2:06: Sakurai is not saying it's hard to do special moves in traditional fighting games, he's saying Street Fighter 1 requires perfect inputs that have quite literally broken programming and no frame buffer, unlike every new modern fighting game in existence. People learning from this who still believe most traditional fighting games have hard inputs should focus more on what he says about Street Fighter 2, which is way more important.

[ZahhibbDev]

I really like his last quote of "It's best to always approach your "givens" as if they aren't givens at all."

Often time we can get stuck in our subjective views, using one design choice for features that may seem similar but where it may not fit, or using rules that no longer apply. I agree that it is better to do your due diligence and act as if each time you design a feature you do it from the beginning (though to some higher degree so you don't reinvent the wheel).

[caliburnleaf]

The game that immediately came to mind when I saw this video is Divekick. An incredibly simplified fighting game, down to only having two buttons - dive and kick. And yet, despite this simplicity on the surface, it manages to hide great depth by having each character control differently. Even with only two buttons, varying your timing or your sequencing can lead to very different outcomes, which gives way for player expression. It's a game that I would describe as both simple *and* complex.

[risel]

Of all the games Sakurai has played, I was not expecting Smite to be one of them.

[SomeGalNamedEve]

It's crazy how much just a single gimmick can add to a fighting game, too.
Just look at Splatoon, the ink mechanic seems so simple on paper but it adds so much depth to the game.

[DaDMonDCB]

Has someone mentioned Dive Kick yet (jokingly or seriously)? That's pretty simple and had a ton of competitiveness.

[MiraiVFD]

low barrier to entry, high skill ceiling is the ideal imo

[lethauntic]

I haven't even seen this yet and I'm already expecting a maximillian video about it

[Potidaon]

In my opinion this should apply to single-player games that are meant to be be endlessly replayable as well. Maybe even more so than competitive games, since different players can have different playstyles and approaches which can introduce a lot of variation. In fighting games in particular. Whereas SP games need to rest almost entirely on their systems.

[FedoraKirb]

I recently cleared all 120 Missions in Merry Magoland in Kirby’s Return to Dream Land Deluxe, and my favorites (Checkerboard Chase, Smash Ride, Booming Blasters) were the ones that, despite being very simple, had a surprising amount of depth and strategy to them. These three are based on positioning and a single action or two (done with one button), but because the player can understand such a simple and versatile move and how it interacts with the environment so quickly (be it a shockwave, dash, or blaster shot), they can apply it to a lot of different scenarios, and play based on how their OPPONENTS are using said tools as well. These games are all still fun on a casual level, but matches are always so dynamic that I can’t help but play them over and over again.

[-Ryu]

2:01 Ah, The First World Warrior Tournament. A flawed, but nostalgic adventure for me and My Best Friend.

[barrelrush]

I tend to think of the board game Go

Go doesn't have a lot of rules, and the rules are simple, but the game itself is very competitive and strategic.
So I'm not sure about making a game complex, I tend to think of it as a matter of meaningful choices, like a player has good decisions to make (strategy), and maybe a competition to see if you can execute those decisions (mechanics, reaction speed, etc).

[sephytcd]

This is probably the best way to address this in way that critiques it but doesn't act like it's unnecesarry and a problem. I think a lot of people talk about complex as this problem or simply scary thing without considering what it offers, but this criticizes in a way that values it and talks about the actual issues with demonizing the idea of complexity

[samuelmcghee]

I think popular competitive games tend to be complex because the complexity gives the chance for collective discovery. it’s not even just that “i want to be the best” it’s “i want to be the one to discover this trick”

[SuperFusionAJ]

And to think Smash Bros happened because Sakurai felt bad for winning against a couple in KOF 95.

[SkeithTwilight]

Sakurai about to set the internet on fire again LOL👀 Love it. Also good morning.

[RangoTheMercenary]

One of the fun parts of considering this comes from 8-bit fighting games. King of Fighters, Samurai Shodown, and The Last Blade were all on the Neo Geo Pocket Color. Can you imagine the work it must have taken to simplify competitive fighters into a 2-button scheme? Yet, for the player, it might be that much easier for newcomers to get into.

[JumpmanNX]

Another awesome video from Sakurai! The Smash series is my favorite competitive game. Competitive games should be easy to learn, but also have a depth to mastering them. And that's something Smash does insanely well every time.

[manu_elle_arg]

01:15 Thanks! now you gave me a basic plan to make a fighting game

[phdbot]

The thing I love about fighting games is the amount of depth they have to stay relevant in the competitive scene!
I'm lucky to have grown up with them, but I don't know if it's easier or harder for a newcomer to get into a fighting game nowadays. On one hand, modern fighting games have been focusing on simpler inputs and leniency, but on the other hand, more people who've stuck around have been getting better and better at these games, so it's in some ways harder to earn wins and might be discouraging for them to play competitively. Maybe I'm worrying too much though, because there are some people I know who are happy to teach others how to get better at fighting games.
Either way, these things make it all the more important to have not only elaborate tutorials, but lots of single player content to help newer players learn and enjoy the game in many other ways before jumping into the competition. Street Fighter 6 looks like it's trying to do just that, so I look forward to seeing how it goes! ^^