The SCAM Outdoor Brands Don't Want You To Know

Jackets Shown in this Video:

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[AlexAnteMachina]

To be honest, I worked at an hiking/trekking shop and I knew this for years. Since then I became a huge fan of ponchos. Especially expeds‘ pack poncho. Ponchos allow more airflow underneath and do not even try to lie about „breathability“ and protect you AND your gear from becoming wet. Also it is easy to put it on/off during light rain or when the rain pauses for a few minutes: The poncho can be attached to the Backpack so you just throw it over your head and it hangs there behind you and when rain sets in again you just reach back, grab the thing and pull it over your head again. And in case of very heavy rain or wind you can combine a poncho with a pair of rainchaps to protect your legs, but they leave your crotch open which helps ventilation by a higher amount!
That said:
Great Video! Thank you for that much time and effort! It’s always a pleasure to watch your videos!

[dakotacoburn]

After spending $1000 on a “gore-Tex pro” jacket, I thought it was the best jacket going for years. But after multiple rainy days on trail I noticed I was soaked on the inside. It was a hard pill to swallow realizing that the jacket was just as useful as a $30 frog toggs. Confirmation bias is totally real and it hits close to home

[sarakajira]

100%. I've worked professionally in the ski industry as a Lift Operator for years, and we have to spend hours standing in blizzard conditions, rainy conditions, and everything in-between while working hard shoveling snow and doing other physically demanding work. And I can tell you as someone who professionally is paid to be outdoors and do sweaty work: the best waterproof jackets you can get, are just the fully rubberized heavy duty rain gear. And if you want to stay warm, just have a puffer underneath. These crazy goretex systems are just completely unnecessary and most of them get you wet anyway. Just wear an oversized rubberized rain jacket so it allows air to move underneath it and you'll stay much dryer.

[MikeReid]

I work as a full-time glacier and alpine guide in Iceland and have owned many Goretex layers. I have noticed that a nice new Goretex jacket works well during a chilly alpine ascent (due to both the humidity difference and fresh DWR coating). This is why I only use Goretex for high-alpine trips or ice-cap related activities. When it comes to daily glacier guiding in the rain (a high-humidity environment), Goretex is worthless. What I started doing is just buying cheap rubber jackets/pants that both last longer and are exponentially cheaper. Great video!!

[wardle]

As a textile designer of 30 years, I really loved the video.

The other part of the story here, other than the membrane and fluorocarbon, is the base fabric design and membrane adhesive formulation and garment construction.
In the case of the garments or brands you mention, these are all flat filament CF fibers, likely polyester or nylon 6.
Air textured yarns, spun yarns or fiber blends will have an impact.
The weave design will have an impact. For example, a plain weave vs a basket weave, or the thread count ... 45 threads per inch vs say 55 of the same yarn count in warp or fill.
Microporous films may have a lot of polymer melt adhesive for durability, which may negatively affect breathability, or a little bit of adhesive which give a better feel.
There are also breathable coatings, in the microporous option or hydrophilic option.
And of course, apart from these factors, there is garment design.

A well known brand and high price tag, doesn't necessarily mean the best product.

It should also be noted that C8 fluorochemistry is being phased out in favor of C6 for environmental reasons.

[jimmyz]

Thank you. You have convinced me that I shouldn't hike in wet weather or buy expensive fabrics. I'm good with that.

[benh]

I grew up scouting in the pacific northwest and our leaders use to say things like "No such thing as waterproof and breathable" or "Prepare to be wet and warm, because you can't always be dry". It was great watching this video that explains the science behind that old northwest wisdom.

[wesleyfoster]

The amount of time, energy and research you put into your videos is astounding. Keep up the great work! I love seeing the testing contraptions you come up with.

[JHMC-sx]

In NZ, the places we hunt often average 200+ rain days per year, and it looks like the jungle from Jurassic Park (it literally is).
We wear wool. It stays warm when wet, and we don't even pretend to attempt to stay dry. Rain jackets are for cutting the wind basically.
It's also quiet when you brush again stuff unlike all the synthetics. If its a really really bad storm, an old school fisherman's yellow PVC rain jacket outperforms anything.

[ganthrithor]

I own an Outdoor Research Goretex rain jacket and can confirm-- it does a pretty good job keeping you from getting soaked by rain, but it's certainly not dry inside. I always feel clammy underneath especially in the arms. I'm in Iceland (cold maritime climate) and even when I use it as a wind shell, it can feel clammy inside on cold, humid days as well. It works best when you're not exerting yourself (just sitting or walking a bit), or as a wind shell on dryish days, but once you start doing work, it always ends up feeling damp inside if it's at all humid outside.

[glevideo]

I'm a former REI sales specialist in camping and outdoor clothing. I was geared up with all the best equipment and started out on a long Appalachian Trail thru hike and quickly realized that GoreTex and other similar fabrics were indeed useless in the rain soaked conditions on the trail in the humid south. The best thing was to just suck it up and expect to get wet and hope to dry out later on. Open up the vents and pit zips and flush as much air through the jacket as you can. The GoreTex shoes were also useless so again just expect to get wet, live with it and know that you can dry out later on. If you encounter a quick and short shower then you may be protected if the shower doesn't last too long. Often just wearing GoreTex outer wear gets one hot and sweaty and it basically begins raining on the inside.

[kenmorrisproducer]

“When humidity is high, these jackets don’t seem to breathe at all.”

This was my experience with Gore-Tex hiking the West Highland Way in Scotland. I stayed dryer wearing shorts, sandals, and a large cheap poncho than my fellows hikers in full length head to toe waterproof gear.

(Note: Poncho goes OVER the backpack)

[frstesiste]

I'm old enough to remember the pre GoreTex days - at least pre GoreTex where I lived. What I had before where cotton and polyester-cotton blends (like the G1000 used by Fjellraven) treated for waterproofness. These kind of worked - actually really well in misty conditions or with snow well below freezing - but just didn't work well in heavy prolonged rain. I remember biking to school a couple of times in a cotton "waterproof" outdoorsy and almost new jacket and it worked for the 15-20 minutes ride, but after an hour in steady rain it just wet thru.
So going hiking with these types of clothes I'd bring a lightweight really waterproof jacket in addition. The other option was to leave the cotton jacket at home and bring only a more heavy-duty rain jacket that certainly would keep the rain out but was unnecessary uncomfortable if the rain let up.
Then GoreTex came along, and I bought one of the first jackets available where I lived. And it worked! Not like some miracle fabric that solved every problem, but it was lighter than my cotton jacket and much lighter than an outdoorsy jacket plus a rain jacket. It also kept me at least as dry in rain but was less comfortable than poly-cotton and cotton in warm weather when it didn't rain (no test equipment, but lots of experience and curiosity). I even did a (fairly unscientific but what I could manage) test cross country skiing in around -15C. Same loop of 5 miles three times with polyester-cotton blend, cotton and GoreTex and to my surprise there where clearly less condensation on the inside of the GoreTex jacket.
I don't disagree with your findings at all - it's fairly basic knowledge that with close to 100% humidity outside a fabric wont "breathe" much (good illustration with the parking lot BTW, hadn't seen that before). The question is however, what did GoreTex replace and what are the options now? Other waterproof-breathable materials struggle with exactly the same limitations when it comes to high humidity outside the jacket. I've tried Entrant, Triple Point, many versions of GoreTex, eVent, Dermizax and a couple of other with unspecified waterproof breathable technologies and in heavy rain they always struggle and I'll get condensation. But they also replace two other jackets that weigh more and I have to switch between when it's not steady all da rain.
I live in an area with fairly unstable weather but even here it's much more common with a mix of showers, light rain/mist, sunny, windy etc. than all day heavy rain and waterproof-breathable tech keep me fairly comfortable in all the conditions. I haven't found anything that works better, maybe except for an umbrella but umbrellas have some serious problems with wind and overgrown trails.

[pamepame]

This video explains exactly my experience of 20+ years of hiking in the Scottish Highlands, one of the most humid places on Earth. GoreTex (and all those related fabrics) are basically useless. Got myself a light umbrella. Worked perfectly! 100% waterproof and 100% breathable!

[garymendez-tjbw]

The best winter jacket I have is old school sheepskin bomber jacket. You can’t beat natural material. It’s breathable, regulates temperature and wicks moisture. It will also almost last a lifetime.

[obvNameLess]

these jackets are far better suited for higher altitude environments where the air is dry and you are more likely to deal with snow than rain than for a backpacking rain coat. I carry a simple north face rain jacket with pit zips and it works just fine

[Harry-Giles]

You continue to take this hobby segment to a higher level. Props

[raphaelkinney]

Really appreciate this kind of content! Really good companion to the FortNine video that did something similar for motorcycle jackets. As a runner I realized what you concluded in this video and opted for a much cheaper $180 jacket that doesnt use Gore-Tex but has goodish breathability and okay water protection. I just couldn't justify spending multiple hundreds of dollars on a jacket that with exposed membrane (like the Gore R7 Shakedry) that I would almost certainly need to replace in a few years of heavy use because it literally would just not last that long. The exposed membrane literally wears down with things like a running pack on for example.

[cmadelaide]

So what you’re saying is I need to replace the DWR coating on my Gore-Tex jacket. Thanks for the reminder. A bit like someone spending $100k on a Porsche but never getting it serviced, and then one day wondering why it has stopped working.

[kai-uweoch]

The beauty with all those membrane jackets is that they kind of work under different circumstances. A membrane jacket will protect you from the wind, it might give you a little bit more insulation when it's cold and it will keep the rain off if it's raining. So it's a multi purpose piece of equipment. However you need to know its limitations. This is transporting sweat caused by intense physical activity when it's wet outside - and worse wet and warm.