Sir Gawain and the Green Knight pt.2

This is the second part of the story of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Sir Gawain goes off to get his head cut off, and he finds himself in an upside down situation full of trickery and tests.

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The outro to my videos was written by Matthew Wilkinson

[morganmayfair]

“I could have done better” is a common shame

[zaxehammer]

The marker of shame/glory could also be said of Luke in Empure Strikes Back! Didn't give in to the Dark Side and give up his principles (teetering on the edge of those gangways on Bespin). BUT, he lost his hand - and the lightsaber from the "ancient world" - and bears the robotic hand as the mark.

Thanks for insights, as always, Jonathan!

[fr.timothycurren]

Full disclosure: I basically became a patron just for this video. This has been one of my favorite stories ever since I was first introduced to it when my family took me to see it performed as part of the Christmas Revels in Cambridge. The story has seemed to follow me ever since, from the song "The Green Man" by my favorite band in high school Type O Negative, to reading Tolkiens translation in Brit Lit 1, to writing a term paper on the Green Knight/Green Man for my Arthurian Lit class.

Interesting "emergence" moment I noticed in watching these two videos: in the first video I was surprised to see you make a connection to Al Khidr of the Islamic Tradition (though it makes perfect sense as the name Kidr means "the green one", akdar meaning "green" in arabic). Funnily enough you then mention St. George in the second video, and there is a connection between the two. In muslim countries that have a strong Sufi tradition and even among Arab Christians, there seems to be a conflation between Khidr and St. George, to the point where the name Khader is a stand in for St. George, and Christians who bear this name celebrate St. George as their patron. The village neighboring my wife's home village in the West Bank is actually called "Al Khader" because of an Orthodox monastery there dedicated to St. George that the town was built around. According to local legend St. George's mother was from this village and so it is a sort of secondary pilgrimage site for him in addition to his tomb in Lydda.

[Nitsua]

Going to be a flood of people here after watching Green Knight.

[notloki]

Fascinating.

This answered a lot of questions i had about your self-identification as a Christian while also being well-versed in and understanding the veracity of a large amount of pagan stories.

Reminds me of the idea of synthesis, antithesis and thesis. I'm very excited for this new wave of Christianity blended with psychoanalytic thinking. I think there's a lot to be gained from the hybridization of myth under the rubric of symbolism and geometry.

This margin – center dichotomy seems to be a much better alternative to witch burnings and accusations of heresy.

The Arthurian legends seem to be a very fertile mid-ground between christian and pagan cosmology. In a way, the Green Knight I think represents a hybridization between a Celtic or Nordic understanding of the cosmos and a southern more Christian understanding of the cosmos.

I wish I understood more of the Arthurian legends so that I could relate my polytheistic understanding of the world to my traditionalist Christian friends in a way that is not quite as foreign or threatening to them.

[damjantarkanyi]

Most pertinent analysis. Here's another thought about why accepting the garter might symbolize a sign of weakness (loss of personal integrity): A garter has a function to fasten trousers or undergarments. Sir Gawain insist to sovereignly keep his chaste virtue on the first days. The offering of the garter might be then a mockery of his decision. As if the woman was saying: "You want to keep up your trousers so badly? Here let me help." He didn't trust the inherent value and power of his choice, and accepted something that lessens his sovereignty. Its no longer fully up to his choice, but depends on a material thing. He trusted this material thing more, but these can be unreliable, are prone to decay. He gave up the center, the transcendent source of value and order, and made it be dependent on an external agent, something material, something of the margin.

[EthanPowers-st]

CHAT this story is awesome and the video was super helpful, thanks Jonathan Pageau

[jacob]

The new movie adaptation of this story seems to make a point of reducing the virtue of Sir Gawain and changing key elements of the second half of the story. I'd love to hear your analysis of it.

[rosafalls]

"Death against death." I'm not sure this is true, but I remember reading a long while back that green was and maybe, still is, the color of death in Muslim culture and the middle east. And even though we now often consider it a color of nature and health, it can be nature gone awry, such as what happened with some, "Green" events such as Chernobyl where radiation causes things to grow very green, and greenery increases radiation even. Chernobyl means, "Wormwood, " and wormwood is what makes the green drink, absinthe. There is also the saying, "Green with envy." It almost seems that in older times, green was seen as a dangerous color, perhaps, associated with mold and rot. There is also the more modern "green" event of Evergreen College. Israel is now having protests over their Green Pass, which excludes many to 2nd class citizens who cannot shop, sell, go to church or other common activities without it on their phone.

Then, I was thinking about the kisses. It seems as if they have two meanings, one of betrayal and one of submission. When Gawain gives the kisses to the king he is hinting at betrayal in the house, yet he is not submitting to it. And then, the kisses may be a sign of submission and giving to the master what is his. Only recently, when reading about the green St. Patrick, I saw one legend that says Patrick refused to kiss the breasts of the pagan sea captain who was taking him back to Ireland. Evidently, foreigners or those in a lower position as an outsider often had to show submission by sucking the breast of the male leader if asked, or be killed. St. Patrick refused and for whatever reason the sea captain let him live and delivered him to Ireland.

I think, Gawain had no choice but to receive, at least, some small injury to his body as a sign of initiation. And because of his encounter with death and being tempted and nicked by it, it did set him apart and give him a sense of mourning so that he wasn't of the same world anymore, but had the bite of another in him. He had gone through something most others had not. This is often how it feels for those that have gone through war or other things that most others have not. They return to the land of the living a bit apart from it and not so innocent anymore.

[MRizzio]

Great find. As the world moves toward the GREEN transfiguration and spins toward the mouth of the abyss, we need these morally sound GREEN tales of yore to keep our sanity. Thank You Jonathan.

[bookwriter]

Thank you, Jonathan- really. So much makes sense now for me. Be blessed x

[anajuliasilveira]

I love reading the comments on J. Pageau's videos because you guys have always something interesting to add. It feels like it all comes up together. Thank you Jonathan for this amazing video and everybody else for the helpful comments!!

[cactoidjim]

"Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense" is the cry of our modern world, but twisted, for they heap shame on those who would call out their truly shameful actions.

[gillman]

Now that I've seen this, and know what's truly a great Christian story, im very confident the film won't live up to the moral

[jarlnicholl]

You should look into channel Last Things and the analysis of Black Mirror there. It would be great hearing you two talk.

[adamwestlund]

I read this story for a class a few years ago, and nobody told me any of this... It's so wonderful to have this information openly available!

[avu_metalsmith]

Was looking forward part two! Very interesting story, had to listen to the original story after listening to your part one.

[papercut]

Quite interesting that Gawain's sin of wanting to dominate the old/foreign land was subverted by resisting the same temptation in the foreign queen calling him to take her

[rocktibayan]

Really deep connections I never acknowledged! Very helpful! Thanks. I'm gonna be composing an exposition on this story for school, and so it is awesome to see some Biblical associations not often appreciated. I am definitely subscribing.

[mutant-zombieleaves]

Awesome video! The Greenman/Greenwoman is such an interesting character. It's everywhere, but people know very little about him...