how RTS games are threatened by technology itself

There has been a LOT of talk about whether RTS Games in 2023 are a sign that the entire Real-Time Strategy genre is dying. But what got us to this point? There are a bunch of upcoming RTS Games in 2024 - how can the genre be "dead"? But whether you think RTS is Dead or just...sleeping...it brings up an important question: Is the death of a genre *inevitable*?

This episode we're looking at the Realtime Strategy Game, and how its origins and the nature of games may have spelled its demise.

Song List:
Age of Empires Soundtrack
Purple Clouds - Sarah, the Illstrumentalist
Powerwalkin' - Future Joust
Title - Dune Soundtrack
The Building of a Dynasty - Dune II Soundtrack
Radio - Command & Conquer Soundtrack
Dota 2 Soundtrack
Tidecaller - League of Legends Soundtrack
Traction - Dylan Sitts
War Declared - Crusader Kings III Soundtrack
In Search of Life - Stellaris Soundtrack
Intro Theme - Battlefield 1942 Soundtrack
Towards the Stars - Planetary Annihilation Soundtrack
The Farmhouse - Silver Maple
Callout - AGST

[karlbergman]

There's no such thing as a dead genre, there are only bad games

[ghyslainabel]

A few years ago, another video said that the majority of RTS players wanted a campaign, while the companies focused in multiplayers games. The companies are more interested in catering to the vocal multiplayer competitive crowd than to the core RTS audience.

[ccossmin]

The first game to combine Real-Time Strategy (RTS) and First-Person Shooter (FPS) elements in a significant way was "Battlezone, " released by Activision in 1998.

[andrewgreeb]

Rts isn't dead, people just need to make better ones, the indie scene is looking real good right now.
I'm partial to beyond all reason, an rts styled after supreme commander, with a robust system allowing 8v8 games with minimal lag with no unit caps, it also has very nice controls making army management easier, and the devs are still adding more.

[gabe]

RTS is definitely not dead. It just needs time to evolve. Even AAA studios are pumping out crap these days. If you look at genres like Strategy RPG, you would have never thought games like Balder's Gate would have been up for Game of the year. Goes to show that all you need is passionate developers who care about their work and respect the players.

[joyboyproxy]

What you are missing is that RTS games are not only battle games. And that's something that so many devs get wrong, they remove the "non combat" elements and then they are not sure why their games are dying.

RTS is also a rhythm genre. The real part of it, clicking the correct buttons, following a flow, it's something that remains hidden but brings the joy into the game. Making 12 Battle cruisers is fun. That alone. Building them. Is fun. And that's part of the rhythm side of RTS. And as long as that's missing, those new games would die as fast as they have spawned.

[feandil]

Don't forget in the 90s we didn't have that much choice, but we were also very few gamers. Nowadays the market is so big I wouldn't be surprised there more people playing RTS games now than ever before.
There will always be RTS games to play, because there will always be fans, being niche doesn't mean you're dead.

[Tyletoful]

I forget which ZeroSpace dev mentioned this, but when they announced their new RTS he said something along the lines of "it's time for RTS to learn from MOBAs like MOBAs learned from RTS." And i think that is quite important. The newest RTS's are raising the skill floor while trying to keep the ceiling at the same place. Let me also remind you of international viewership, just because you and your friends dont play SC2 any more, it doesn't mean nobody does. Sc2 this year has had peak viewership of 78, 000 on twitch. Sure maybe some games do better numbers, but that doesn't sound dead to me. There a tons of SC2 fans around the world that love watching to this day, even if they havent played. If you looked at a bunch of 35+ year old men that watch baseball a few times a week and ask them if they play baseball anymore, their response of "no" doesnt tell you baseball is dead and its similar with RTS games. I am terrible with matching tone in text, so I dont want this to sound like an attack. I love all of your content. I do disagree with the statement that RTS as a genre is dead though, I feel that's a short sighted viewpoint.

[yurisonovab]

I'll save you from watching: "I'm bored with a narrow band of traditional RTS games, so the genre is dead. All those newer designed RTS games don't count because they are slightly different from what I call an RTS."

[mvdk]

There's definitely room for innovation. Consider "Radio General" for example. You control units through commands like "move to grid D5" and your map doesn't auto-update: you have to call in to your units and ask them for a report. They might not even know where they are, if they got lost in a forest or scattered in a retreat.

[davidliddelow]

I actually love it when games are complex. I think the simplification of games is a big reason why new games don’t do it for me. The key to making it work is to keep the player engaged and having fun while they are learning. The game has to be playable and fun in a simplified state.

[FrostGiantStudios]

Cool video. We believe the genre's best days are still ahead and we're excited to continue sharing details on how we're moving RTS technology forward in Stormgate. Stay tuned!

[SteamedToast]

As many others have commented, it's more a factor of AAA only catering to the most profitable % of every audience which has resulted in a vast homogenisation of genres, playstyles, and mechanics. RTS isn't part of the most popular 5% of gaming so no developers will finance making more of them, same as music games, beat em ups, point and clicks, etc. (unless they're part of an established IP). RTS has plenty of potential to it, but right now it's been discarded as a sacrifice to the publicly owned gods of profitability.

[RatWizaard]

I really like RTS city builder games like Kingdoms Reborn, Frostpunk, and Anno. So many RTS games will start you with nothing and have you build up your base/empire for your military, but it's so easy to build up a great city or civilization just for the sake of the city itself. It seems like a natural expansion of the genre I wish was more utilized.

[squirrele]

RTS is by far the most inspirational game genre. whenever I play a game that has RTS elements I wonder “if only this game had x element” and there’s usually a modder who has made a game-sized addition

[SkylorBeck]

The issue with the 1+32vs1+32 RTS/Shooter is that when the people who only like RTS get stuck in the FPS mode they just quit. And when no RTS player is around, the FPS players rarely step up to command.

[KlausWulfenbach]

A few corrections about Dune and Dune II:

1) Dune and Dune "II" were developed at the same time originally due to a miscommunication about which studio was supposed to be making a Dune game. Both games turned out so well that the publisher decided to publish both. If Cryo had taken too long, their game would have been Dune II and Dune II would have just been Dune.

2) The Dune II developers had never heard of Herzog Zwei or seen the game until over a decade later. The original inspiration for the gameplay of Dune II was Military Madness on the Turbografx 16. The Herzog Zwei non-connection was hypothesized by journalists, but Herzog Zwei isn't even the first Herzog game, and Herzog wasn't the first RTS game.

3) The Dune license was specifically for the movie and not the books, so they could only make content based on the movie. House Ordos is only briefly mentioned in the movie. This gave the devs the chance to essentially make their own faction, but the name is prior canon.


As for what killed RTSs, it absolutely was not MOBAs. The fact that MOBAs were designed to be eSports and sprang out of RTSs may have been part of the conversation, but the only RTSs that conversation actually harmed were Sacraboar and Dawn of War III.

What actually killed RTSs for about a decade (they weren't actually dead, just absent from AAA) was Starcraft II and the idea that RTSs had to be giant eSports to succeed.

As for Silica, I hope it does well, but it's far from the first game to attempt Commander + Teammate RTS gameplay.

[alliedatheistalliance]

I think there might also be a wider context here, which is the death of all games. At least, all big studio games. Corporate greed set in and destroyed everything. Everything is about profit, and the art died. Which is especially tragic since the art was only in its infancy. However as game engines and 'game makers' get better, I hope indie games can improve to the point they don't need massive investment, someone can make a genuinely great game as a personal project.

[AFnord]

I remember when the turnbased strategy game was declared dead, when we hardly ever saw any TBSs, be they tactical games or 4X games. Nowadays we get a lot of turnbased strategy games and we live in an era where the genre is presenting a lot of new and interesting twists on the formula, as well as a fare few traditional ones as well. What was once considered a very niche genre that at best received a small handful of games in any given year is now in what feels like a golden age.

I think there's still plenty of room left for innovation in the RTS genre, and also many old ideas that could be expanded upon, but the feeling I get from playing RTSs is that it's also a genre that's pretty hard and expensive to make. There's a fare few indie RTSs out there, but many of them are more frustrating than fun to play because of reasons like questionable game balance, pathfinding and pacing issues. It's an expensive genre to make and it's also one that hasn't done so well on consoles, so there's not that much interest in publishers to sink a lot of money into them.

[ianhutchinson]

I think you're correct about newer genres drawing players away from RTS games and the genre no longer benefiting from technological advancements, but I think your point about RTS games having too high of a skill floor only speaks to the competitive sides of these games and underestimates the value of content like single player campaigns. There are plenty of casual players who play the campaigns but don't get into the competitive side, and the focus on RTS games as primarily competitive experiences leaves out this portion of their audience who would still be interested in a game that catered to them a little more. If you haven't already seen it, the video "The Next Major RTS Will Fail. This Is Why" by GiantGrantGames does a really good job of explaining this with some pretty comprehensive survey data gathered from the RTS community.